1.6L to be replaced with 1.5L

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Chat and Discussion' started by WRC Fan, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. WRC Fan

    WRC Fan Administrator Staff Member

    It's no secret that Ford has a new 1.5L EcoBoost engine, that will be replacing the 1.6L version, in at least some of their cars. The Fusion is the only application that has been "officially" announced. But, you know they aren't going to keep it to one vehicle. Probably all current 1.6L vehicles will get this newer, more-efficient engine.

    So, how long do you think it will be before the Fiesta ST gets the 1.5?

    Maybe the 2014 MY cars will be a rare, one-year only model? Future collectible? ;)
     
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  3. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    LOL good one :woot: I buy my cars to drive them not make garage or trailer queens out of them .. Neither rain sleet or snow can keep me from having motorway fun ... I laugh (HAHA) at the elements :wtf:
     
  4. wash

    wash Active Member

    What I've read about the 1.5 is that its a 4 cylinder version of the 1.0 with an aluminum block, designed for lower taxes in China market cars and generally made to increase capacity of small 4 cylinder Ecoboost engines globally instead of totally replace the 1.6.

    I bet its going to be a good engine.

    If the Mazda Speed 3 2.3 was the Ecoboost 0.9, the 3.5 v6 1.0, the 1.6 and 2.0 would be 1.1, the 1.0 would be 1.2 and the 1.5 1.21, not a new generation but hopefully a good revision.

    I haven't really dug in to my 1.6 yet but I don't think it has an integrated exhaust manifold which would make turbo upgrades more simple.

    Stock I think they will be essentially even but modified one will pull ahead.

    I think there might be a crank that can stretch the 1.6 to 1.7l so that means the 1.5 might have to be 13% better to keep up.
     
  5. WRC Fan

    WRC Fan Administrator Staff Member

    It will debut in China in the Mondeo, then Europe (Mondeo) and the US (Fusion) initially.
     
  6. WRC Fan

    WRC Fan Administrator Staff Member

    Apparently in the Fusion, output will be 178 hp and 177 lb-ft of torque. Which, compared to the 1.6-liter EcoBoost engine, is the same HP, but seven fewer lb-ft of torque.

    The upsides to this engine are supposedly better fuel economy, and a water pump that decouples when not needed. Which will help with cold-start emissions (a biggie with the EPA).

    What it means for a performance derivative variant remains to be seen. The Fiesta ST is currently the highest tuned application of the 1.6L in Ford's lineup.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  7. Removed

    Removed Guest

    I'm guessing that they will change it next year or whenever they run out of 1.6's.

    Performance-wise, I'd imagine they will be about the same, but the extra 100cc's will (likely) mean the 1.5 will have less potential.
     
  8. captainmorbid

    captainmorbid Active Member

    Awesome to see Ford whipping these engines out, guess they are hooked on the small stuff!
     
  9. wash

    wash Active Member

    Ford is never going to "run out" of 1.6s before they discontinue the motor. Their European (English?) plant just can't supply 100% of the global demand. Ford needed another plant any way so they designed a new engine to take advantage of a Chinese tax break.

    Honestly I think you would see a 1.5 Ecoboost in a Focus before they change the engine of the Fiesta ST. It makes more sense to redesign a high sales volume car than a low selling niche vehicle, even if demand out-strips supply.
     
  10. Mayhem

    Mayhem Active Member

    It wouldn't be that out of character realistically if they were indeed officially discontinuing the engine and wanted to get rid of existing North American 1.6 supplies first before updating.

    For recent comparison, the 2010 SVT Raptor launched with the 5.4L engine, and soon followed the rumors of the Engine being phased out for a new better engine. Which annoyed people, but didn't dissuade many from buying the 5.4's to be the first people getting them because there wasn't "official" announcements yet as to when the new engine would be made available..

    They tossed those 5.4's into the Raptors so they could dump off existing 5.4 supplies before introducing the 6.2L engine which came at the end of the 2010 MY for a 4-5k premium. And at that time they had no expectations for the Raptor being anything more than a niche vehicle which went o to sell far more than anticipated.

    Needless to say, many 5.4 owners went back and swapped for the 6.2L's... Profit $ $

    Even if it does currently appear unlikely, I can't say that I'd be surprised to see a mid year engine swap or an engine swap coming in the next MY or two.

    I am not a fan of mid year updates like that anymore... as My truck was a 2010 6.2L and took a big depreciation hit because black books only listed the 5.4L's for 2010.... So instantly 2010 6.2L's basically lost the value of the new engine upgrade when it comes to resale. A very uphill battle trying to argue the value of your vehicle when there is no proper blackbook listing for it because it was an end of the year afterthought release..

    Also, screws up insurance in that..... full replacement vehicle coverage can only be applied based on how new your vehicle is... So getting a vehicle that is basically the next MY vehicle but on paper appears to be the current MY vehicle... takes away a year of full replacement coverage.

    No more mid year revamps for me... Costs more, lower resale, insured for less value.

    So if they do introduce the new engine I would hope for buyer's sake it will be a new MY entirely.
     
  11. wash

    wash Active Member

    Its not the same thing because the 6.2 was designed as a truck engine and they were always going to make it fit that truck.

    The 1.5 is designed for Fusion, Escape and maybe Focus sized vehicles.

    In the Fiesta the 1.0 is more equivalent, its an upgrade to the stock 1.6, was designed for Fiesta size vehicles and will sell a lot.

    The Ecoboost 1.6 and 1.5 will probably never sell a lot in the Fiesta because its a $7,000 or so option in a $15,000 car instead of a $5,500 option in a $32,000++ truck (F150 XLT extended cab is the cheapest option). The total sales volume of the F-150 is a lot higher than North America Fiesta sales too.

    They just are not similar situations and if you believe "one world Ford", its not going to happen until they switch European cars to the 1.5 which I don't think there is any motivation to do.

    The 1.5 is certainly more of a lateral move and it might not be better than a 1.6 Ecoboost so if anything, if there is a change, early cars with the 1.6 may command a premium rather than take a depreciation hit like a 5.4 Raptor.
     
  12. captainmorbid

    captainmorbid Active Member

    There is zero chance the 1.5 will end up in a MK7 fiesta. I think it might end up in the next gen ST if it performs better in emissions testing.
     
  13. Mayhem

    Mayhem Active Member

    Yeah, I don't know anything whatsoever about the 1.5. Still wouldn't be surprised to see them do an engine swap at some point in the FiST's first couple years. I don't really have a lot of interest in similarly performing or smaller engines though... Wake me up the day they throw something with 250 HP into a FiST. (One can dream.....) I hope the aftermarket wakes up for this car a little though... As far as things look currently, options are pretty dull.
     
  14. Removed

    Removed Guest

    I wouldn't say that. Mountune, FSWerks, COBB, CP-e... most of the Focus ST guys have cars which, I would assume, means parts are coming down the pipeline.
     
  15. wash

    wash Active Member

    The only way the 1.5 could be better is if the cylinder head or piston design somehow works out to be incredibly detonation resistant and the block/crank/rods are stout enough to crank the boost a lot. A turbo swap would be required to realize that potential but the cast in to the cylinder head exhaust manifold might not work for that.

    The worry is that Ford will create an orphan, fracture the tuner support and maybe even leave us with a car that does not have as much potential.

    Its all wild speculation and like I said, unlikely to effect niche market products because there isn't a whole lot of return on the same amount of development compared to putting it in a Fusion or something.
     
  16. Mayhem

    Mayhem Active Member

    Yeah, well perhaps "dull" wasn't the appropriate word choice hehe. I guess I am just used to following spoiled performance vehicles... Camaro / Mustang / Raptor / FT86 etc... They all had maaaaaassive aftermarket support.... But I definitely appreciate the few companies that are at least doing something for us. And good companies at that. I'm sure what they produce will be fantastic, but it's definitely not going to be as expansive as some of the performance vehicles that are produced in much larger quantities.. Of course the stereotypical bolt on's will be there.. But yeah... If the selection is too limited, everybody with any aftermarket mods is going to have the same car as everyone else who goes aftermarket. I'd like to see more room for individuality.
     

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