Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Road Racing' started by McRib 1s Back, Feb 16, 2014.
At the shop now having them mounted.
And I got Road Hazard!
Send pictures! I'd like to see a side-by-side, please. I'm curious about comparative widths (you really never know what you're getting).
Those fit in there very nicely!
So, that's literally a side-by-side shot, but I actually meant a shot that compared these to the OEM tires. I suppose I can see for myself on Saturday!
Yes, I knew what you wanted, I was just pulling your chain.
I thought we could get them all next to one another on Saturday.
Then post a photo of all of them.
Tell me about the cross bar and the trunk floor cover.
The full size spare was replaced with a compact type.
I never even had a spare in my Mini.
I have AAA so I could just have the car towed.
Floating floor board is just set flat over the spare.
The cargo mat is from the regular Fiesta, not the ST or Titanium.
The rear stress is custom made (by me) to provide support where a hatch needs it most.
When the seats are up the bar is right behind them so no cargo space is lost.
It can also be easily be removed if needed for large objects.
It just also works perfect to tie my track tires to.
Do you race seat up or down?
Usually with the seats UP as that also provides additional support however not much.
Handling will be insane on R1's. I'm betting you'll shave off 2-3 seconds compared to the Dunlops. Have fun I'm jealous!
They worked really well. I have never run HTM before, so can't say how much faster I am. It really makes the car competitive! I love them already! Let's see how they heat cycle!
Here is the side-by-side of the tires.
These BFG R1 tires are wonderful. They cycled nicely and provided noticeably better traction than the DZ2s after a couple laps. To be clear, I still really like the DZ2 tires and think they'd be great for autox. For now, I just roll to the track in them. They're also fantastic for canyon runs!
I may run a few comparison laps with my DZ2s in the future (literally just two per session, no more). I felt very competitive with this new setup, but might not have been far off the pace even with the DZ2s.
After about 30 hard laps, you can see a wear pattern developing. I can't say it's quite even, but it's close -- and expected with my current suspension setup.
The 15" wheels are fine. I didn't bring my pyrometer with me, but it's quite obvious there's a lot of heat generated! I don't have a comparison run here, but I think the tires are transferring quite a bit of heat to the wheels. My centering rings were fused to the hub! I'll get another set and see what happens. No issues to report of any kind.
I'd be happy if I can get six or so track days from them. Since I have a lot of track days banked, I'll have plenty of opportunities to try all of the local tracks in the FiST (I purchased 40 track days). Chuckwalla sounds very interesting, and I'm looking forward to going back to Streets of Willow along with Big Willow.
Edit: fixed a typo about expected heat cycles.
I'll throw in my 2 cents since I agonized over tires when I ordered my track wheels.
First off I eliminated slicks like the R1 for three reasons: 1) I wanted one set of wheels for a wet track, 2) on stock suspension true slicks can be too much for the car and 3) I'm not good enough and I worried R1's might mask bad habits/mistakes.
So after picking a size (205/50/15) I looked thru my options and narrowed it down to the BFG Rivals, Toyo R888, Dunlop ZII's, ToyoThe RA1, and the Nitto NT01's.
The RA1's were the first to go as they were the most expensive and didn't really offer much for the extra money for HPDE's. Then I tossed the Dunlops because of the two street tires in the list the Rivals seemed to be the ones garnering all the great reviews. So it was down to the Rivals, R888, and NT01.
The R888 and NT01 tires are both made by Toyo and some of my racer friends really rag on the R888. So between some not to rave reviews and the higher price those were tossed. That left the NT01 and the Rival. So really it became street tire vs r-compound.
I ultimately settled on the NT01 deciding to give up some tire left for extra grip. It was mostly at the urging of a few of my more experienced track rat buddies that convinced me that the NT01 is more like a super sticky street tire and it won't hide mistakes like a true slick. I also drive with the BMW CCA (had an M3 before my FiST) and wanted the extra grip to keep my speeds up and avoid me having to be looking in my mirrors and giving point bys. I know it's not a race, but ya know
I also ran NT01's on my M3 so I'll be interested to compare how they behave on 2 very different cars.
I haven't been out on them yet so I'll report back once I have.
Great message -- I totally appreciate your process! You're ahead of me in terms of thinking through the options; had I known what I know NOW, I'd have kept my OEM tires and simply bought the BFG R1s to start...
There are a few points that need clarification or elaboration.
First, we agree, the NT01 is an awesome tire. "LateApex" loves his, and they were tested at Big Willow recently. I didn't really know much about that tire, so it never stood a chance in my process. The R888 tires are also very good -- for everyone that rags on them, you'll find someone that raves about them. YMMVG as the saying goes. I'd consider the R888 in the future for a all-in-one tire (though not my bag right now). They're clearly better than my current "street tire", the Dunlop Direzza DZ2 (which is good enough to drive to the track even in the rain!). I'd put the DZ2 in the same category as the BFG Rival.
The BFG R1 is not a slick -- at least not in the context of race tires. It lacks real tread, no doubt, but it's just an R compound DOT tire like others in its class. After a few heat cycles, they all look that way! Frankly, the biggest reason I chose them is for heat cycle durability! Other great DOT R compound tires include the Hoosier R6, the Hankook Ventus Z214 and similar (my next tires might be the Hankook Z214). Anyhow, both of these tires offer more grip but fewer heat cycles. I also don't deal with rain in SOCAL, so that's not really ever a consideration. I bought 40 track days and want my tires to last at least a half-dozen track days!
The BFG R1 is not "too much tire" for our suspension. That's a valid argument in some cases, and one that I've seen Randy Pobst make a couple times about too much tire for a car (the BRZ/FRS comes to mind). Frankly, we need the grip. Please keep in mind that I'm giving you actual feedback from three sets of tires driven at speed. I can see a stickier tire in my future (I'm looking at you, Hankook Z214!)! I really miss not having a real diff up front!
The "hide/mask mistakes in my driving" is an interesting comment and one I see repeated often enough. I can't speak for others, but I have a lot of experience on sticky street tires, and my BFG R1 tires drive the same while offering modest improvements in grip (i.e., I drive the same, only a bit faster!). I don't mean this as a criticism, but I really don't get that comment. You seem to have a lot of track experience, so I appreciate the perspective. Maybe it's true for cars that have a tendency to bite you on the edge (like a certain German rear-engine layout with drop-throttle-oversteer!). I even see magazine pundits say this -- "if you're near a wall when you lose it, you'll probably kiss it...". /shrug
Let's keep the feedback coming! This is going to be the heart of our "tire KB".
How many laps did it take for the R1's to come up to temp?
Any negatives to the R1? I ran them on my Evo and I'm curious as to how they felt on the stock suspension and FWD?
It's early yet, but I have no complaints. I took minor tire damage when I put two wheels off at speed (seen in the white Lotus overtake video). It's about a 5mm deep hole/cut but seems okay, and holds air. I wouldn't say they're fragile, but it's the first time I've had damage like that (but I've been two wheels off plenty of times!).
They warm up fast. I haven't used them on a very cold day yet, but I'd say they're at good temp after one lap. So your typical first untimed lap should be enough.
On a 20-25 minute session, I gain about 8 PSI up front, a bit less out back (call it 7 PSI). My street tires seem to reliably gain more. I'm watching this to see how it correlates to heat management. The R1 compound is plainly designed for higher temp use (just as the new R1S is for colder operating temps).
First off, great post. It's so nice to find a track user base for the Fiesta. The other Fiesta site disappoints in this category so I'm very happy right now.
The masking mistakes thing seems like a mixed bag. Some say it's a real thing others say it isn't. And both opinions are held by people who's opinions I hold in high regard.
The one downside for super sticky tires for newer drivers (not that I'm super experienced) is the limits are higher so when you find them and exceed them you are going a lot faster then you would have been when you exceed the limits of a street tire (like the RE050 or similar performance summer tire).
Knowing that the FiST needs to grip I will consider something stickier than the NT01. I will feel like a boob since I ordered wheels from tirerack and didn't have anything mounted because they don't carry NT01's, and then if I end up getting something they carry...oh well. Maybe I'll reconsider the R888 or maybe the RA1. But they are a lot more expensive than the NT01's.
Lastly, McRib, please stop posting and nag Porterfield about those R4S pads some more
Right on, we're on the same page.
Also, I didn't want to talk you out of the NT01 tires. In fact, I'm a bit envious. I took a very circuitous route to my R1 setup (wrote about it earlier in the thread). Hell, I've had 17", 16", and now 15" wheels! You're profiting already!
Porterfield should have something for us very soon. I'm doing a ton of car maintenance this weekend, and this is on the list to finish up.
Not to worry, you didn't. I'm just feeling very noncommittal about tires. The nittos are just so cheap - like $140 shipped. The RA1's are another $30 a corner which when I just had a baby seems like a lot.
I did end up with 15" ultraleggeras and I'm preemptively pleased.
Regardless I'll report back after my first track day in May (again, new baby).
Hope those pads can be had by then.
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