Considering DIY twin scroll manifold, equal length, hybrid design with one WG, etc....

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Engine Upgrades' started by raamaudio, May 4, 2014.

  1. raamaudio

    raamaudio Active Member

    Not sure if really needed and far more time to make a proper twin scroll with the ports for best response, last one I made took 50 hours and the cost a bundle to have one of the best welders in the country TIG it up.....I just MIG and for a proper race manifold, TIG had to be done.

    Part of why looking into this is I am wondering if there is a great alternate turbo than waiting for the ATP which are pretty spendy though dang fine of course.

    And, my other projects are moving along nicely so I just might be able to fit this into the schedule.

    If you know what you are talking about or who does and have any good info to offer I am all ears:)

    McRib 1s Back likes this.
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  3. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    That's awesome, good luck! I too want an option, but have nowhere near your ambition. Rumor has it that Mountune is looking at this. I'll have to poke Ken to see where that is, priority wise...
  4. wash

    wash Active Member

    Borg Warner is supposed to be releasing a twin scroll EFR 6258 with their integrated wastegate and all the other gizmos our stock KP39 has so all we will need is a manifold with divided T4 flange and a custom downpipe.

    It should be the perfect turbo with about 425 HP potential, a twin scroll housing and Titanium Aluminide turbine to spool up quick and other nice things like a water cooled center section with twin ceramic ball bearings.

    I'm anxiously waiting for its release because I want a power curve as close to stock at low rpm and high rpm dynamite.

    I think Garret might make something that will do all that but probably more $$ and a much more complicated and bulky manifold setup with external wastegates.

    Lastly, if 425 HP isn't enough, you could swap in a 6758 center section for probably 500 HP potential but I think that would be a very extreme 1.6l.
  5. raamaudio

    raamaudio Active Member

    For those wanting that kind of power, cool:) A bit more than I need but if it can be setup for 300 and have a wide powerband....more to my liking:)
  6. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    Right! 250-300 with nice spool characteristics and a wide powerband is what I want, too.

    I would enjoy seeing a more extreme build, but my track car doesn't need that. :)
  7. raamaudio

    raamaudio Active Member

    250WHP in a car this size and weight(in my case decently lower that stock) sticky tires, dialed in suspension, LSD, will be very quick on a track, to say the least, 300WHP is getting to the point of to much power and can make one lazy as depending on it instead of really driving at your best.
    BlueBomber likes this.
  8. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    Yep, no doubt about it! I'm very impressed with this little car. It has been the most fun I've had on the track in a very long time!

    Now that I have some suspension more-or-less dialed-in, I will focus on getting a bit more power. For now, I'll just see what the downpipe and open exhaust does for me. If I can get similar #s to Joe @ 2J Racing, I'll be very happy. It seems 210 WHP 255+ lb/ft TQ is very realistic. I also only run 100 octane at the track -- even if I don't gain much more, I feel comfortable with the increased safety margin when bombing around all day at WOT! :)
  9. BlueBomber

    BlueBomber Active Member

    After going full tilt in a Fiesta ST on the east circuit of Miller Motorsports park this weekend both behind the wheel myself and with a professional racing driver behind the wheel, more power beyond 250hp or so just wouldn't be usable.

    But holy shit, the things these cars are capable of with the right person behind the wheel!!!

    I am not the world's fastest driver by any means (hell, my buddy Kevin beat my time on UrbanX by 1.5sec) but I do have an Endurance Race at the 24 Hours of LeMons Buttonwillow 2009 under my belt in a BMW 328e. I tend to be a little slower because my lines are slightly off, causing the tires to scream and cry more than they should by turning more than I needed to - but the car had almost as much power as it needed. If I'd been running my own car on the track it probably would've been enough with about 10hp/30tq more than stock. Got into 4th, but just barely.

    Anyways, yeah, I got into the grove and drove the fastest I've ever pushed a Fiesta ST but the instructor, Cam helped show me how cleaning up my line and widening my arc more will make me a smoother faster driver, and then with Tyler behind the wheel (I wanted Cam or Drew but Tyler was no slouch either!!) the car was a good 10mph or so faster in nearly every corner.

    The car needs a little more tire, maybe?
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
  10. wash

    wash Active Member

    425 HP potential does not mean it will only work at 425 HP.

    Using the EFR match-bot, it looks like power in the low 300s would be easy if we can carry full boost to near redline.

    If you do Google searches, you can find a lot of people saying the single scroll 6258 spools better than a GT28, add a twin scroll and it should spool better than a GT25 but with a lot more top end.

    If the turbo can do all those things, why leave 50+ HP on the table?

    There are wastegates and rev limiters if you can't handle it.
  11. raamaudio

    raamaudio Active Member

    You make a very compelling argument (which does not mean fight of course)

    I am not into big power as normally to many sacrifices in real world use but if possible to reliable and have a fair amount more tractable power.....hmmmmmmm
  12. wash

    wash Active Member

    The way I see it, its arguably the best small turbo out there. Most people get scared away by the price but what you don't see is all the built in features that simplify the install, especially if you are replacing a BW like we are.

    When it comes to twin scroll, I think its really hard to argue against it because we don't have a lot of space back there, its going to be hard enough to fit a twin scroll manifold without external wastegates. The wastegates and extra fab aren't free either, when you consider that the EFR begins to look like a bargain.
  13. raamaudio

    raamaudio Active Member

    You certainly have me interested in it......!!!!!!:):):):):):)

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