Discussion in 'COBB Tuning' started by 14st, Nov 15, 2014.
The dealership can tell if the ecu has been reflashed, its called mode six data
Welcome to 1990?
Well a bunch of people were asking about it. Cobb didn't know either. Or at least whoever posted it
Did you or anyone get called out on it by a dealer?
Why would they call you out unless you were making a warranty claim that could have been caused by the tune? Alot of people seem to think that a tune will "void" your warranty, but that's not true. You can have a warranty claim denied IF they can prove the mods caused the failure, but a tune itself will not flag your car as "out of warranty"
Yes, the concern is that dealerships can deny the claim by simply saying it was caused by the upgrade. It does not void your warranty as you stated but it doesn't prevent them from declining the repair due to them finding an aftermarket part was involved. You say the burden of proof is on them, as that is what the law states, but during the time frame that you're fighting with them on this matter (either through escalating it through their local leadership, through Ford directly, or through legal ie lawyer / court) you're still without a car, using up a lot of your time, and likely going to be spending some $$$ in the matter if it escalates that far.
It's not a situation that occurs every time, at every dealership - but the potential is there and it should be something that a new car owner is aware of. There are plenty of people who have problems getting dealerships to honor / repair things under warranty on an absolutely stock car, so I can only imagine the potential difficulty one could face on a modified car.
I can see both sides of the debate, but I'm not sure I would want to bet on the dealer going, "This isn't covered, you modified your car." and me going, "Well here's this law, so it covered now?" - the dealer may not be the brightest bunch of people, but they deal with this a lot more than we do, and know how to get out of warranty repairs unless you want to put up a heck of a fight. The shop managers have likely been around a long time and if they say a warranty repair is declined due to a modification, you're probably going to have to get ready for quite the fight to change their mind.
^ Exactly all of this-well said.
Also, dealerships absolutely can 'flag' your car.
I'm a tech at a ford dealership and a co worker and I decided to see if you can tell if it been flashed. So we used his mustang with an SCT tuner, and we can go back and look when the spark was changed etc.
When the spark was changed... That's very unclear...
I do believe this is only short term however.
Professional Scan Tools like my Snap-On can read limited past data.
It is like a flight recorder and used for diagnostics.
It can also be used by insurance companies to see conditions before an accident.
This is a debate that occurs on almost every forum. I'm by no means an expert, but from everything I've read (plus, my father is a service manager and I've done Lemon Law claims as an attorney) the manufacturer can most certainly tell if you've altered the factory programming if they look hard enough. I don't believe that any tune is absolutely undetectable. Will a local dealer have the equipment necessary to tell one way or another? Maybe, maybe not. The manufacturer almost certainly will. But as Tokendog said quite well, even if you do fight it (and you probably would have legal grounds to fight it) you're still out of a car and money to pay your legal fees in the meantime.
The tool we use at ford is no snap on tool. Its call integrated diagnostics system. Developed specifically by/for ford . currently I can see how the car was running the first day I got it
Oh come on. It's just an enhanced VCM system like EVERY manufacturer has. All the same features. From standard OBD2 reading (which is what it would need to read the checksum like you are talking about, and the freeze frame data, to key programming and ETACS configuration.
You make it sound like it's the key to world peace. It's just standard auto tools.
Look, the bottom line is that we can tell if the ECU's been flashed. That's what this thread was
Tasca offers Ford's with their own tune...and Bob Tasca told me he would tune my FiST for me...it all depends on the stealership...if they want to eff you, they will
I wouldnt say thats correct, the classic is the flashed Ford Diesels...when hooked up to a specific computer at the dealership the box can read overboost, the time of day, throttle position etc etc ....the amount of people that fried their transmissions due to massive torque/ overboost then unplugged the chip and cried foul, was substantial...warranty trans repairs were denied
I dont see how anything you said disproves what you quoted. The warranty will not be voided but your claim can be denied if there is evidence of an aftermarket part causing the failure. Its like you reiterated what was quoted.
ask yourself this question, do you have a warranty if they refuse to fix the car?......theres some pretzel logic.....
Situation A: Something goes wrong with the car. You have not modified it and therefore it doesn't even cross your mind when you go to the dealership. At this point, you should be fully entitled to expect the full service and coverage of your factory warranty.
Situation B: Something goes wrong with your car. You have modified your car. You of course remove those mods before going to the dealership. However, whether or not you do worry about these things, the possibility is there that the dealership may sniff out the mods one way or the other and give you a hassle about it and attempt to decline the repair stating it is not covered under your factory warranty due to the modifications. You MAY possibly be in for a long debate and a lot of back/forth, but remember, you do have that law to protect you... Best of luck with that.
Now you choose which situation you'd prefer to be in if something goes wrong...and yes, I know there are ton more variables involved, but that's the general jist of the situation you MAY be facing if something happens to your car. At the end of the day, a lot of people like to roll the dice. As my father always told me, "Some win, some lose, some don't even get to play."
I think people are over-thinking this. If you mod your car then you're taking a risk plain and simple. Some are relatively low-risk, some are not. Doing any mod doesn't void your entire warranty, so if you add a tune and your windshield washer fails you'll be fine. If you window your block though, you will probably have issues getting a new one. With that being said, there are some mod-friendly dealerships that turn a blind-eye on occasion or may even goodwill a repair.
Either way, the only safe bet is to either wait until your warranty expires before modifying or stay with warranty-approved mods. It's pretty simple.
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