Explain the hate for the Sound Symposer

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Chat and Discussion' started by BRGT350, Jan 12, 2015.

  1. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Thru my multiple social media streams, I have been hounded by questions about getting rid of the Sound Symposer, but for the life of me, can't understand why. Is there a real tangible reason to remove the system from the Fiesta ST? I get the idea of getting rid of it to use the tubing to run wires for other things, but that is about it. The only thing I can think of is that people are thinking the sound is fake and they don't want fake engine sound piped into the cabin. The problem with that theory is that the sound is real and not fake. The best answer I have been given on my YouTube page is that it is a waste of money and "gay", which I don't find to be a suitable reason for removing it. The level of hate for the system is beyond my comprehension.

    If you have any tangible reasons, please share the data to back up the claim so I can better understand how to answer the questions about the system.
    k757, moshaholic2, BlackBird and 2 others like this.
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  3. KKaWing

    KKaWing Member

    Well... the thing selectively pipes in the intake noise, and if you have and aftermarket exhaust installed, the combination might cause drone? Other than that, I dunno. Its not like the system "pipes" through the speakers and the new sub that was installed keeps buzzing :p I guess people just hate the "fake-ness" of it or some just hates that sound.
  4. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    The Focus ST symposer selectively transmits sounds thru the system, but the Fiesta ST doesn't. Perhaps it is another case of people thinking the Focus ST and Fiesta ST systems are the same, kind of like the Focus ST RMM and Fiesta ST. I don't get the fakeness either since it is actual intake sound and an artificial sound created to fill the cabin with sound, like BMW does. Some of the comments online seem to indicate the Sound Symposer is worse than cancer and needs to be removed right away or else it will come and get you at night. I am also beginning to strongly doubt the knowledge of the product for many of these owners.
  5. TapTapPull

    TapTapPull Active Member

    From Boomba Racing's thread on FiestaSTForum:

    This kit is also must-have for those higher horse power builds, where the increased boost levels could break the internal diaphragm of the OEM symposer components and cause boost leaks. Installation is simple and as well as completely reversible.
    Also, as the vehicle ages, that diaphragm could lose elasticity and become brittle. If it cracks or breaks, the same boost leaks could occur. Since the car is a year and a half old, this remains to be seen.

    I plan to buy an aftermarket exhaust, and am not sure how the symposer and the new exhaust note will compliment each other. It could sound unnatural or conflicting, and I may want to remove the symposer's cabin sounds. If so, it is a pretty straightforward delete.

    I've ordered one of Boomba's kits, and will see what it is like.

    Personally, I am a fan of the symposer. It is piped directly into the cabin, so it is true engine noise, but I can see why some wouldn't want it - it's basically compensation for an engine noise that isn't loud enough to be audible all on its own.
    marc89gti likes this.
  6. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    good theory on the flexibility of the membrane over time, but I would bet it has been tested to last at least 5 or more years at extreme cold temps. Given the failure mode is boost leak and loss of performance, extra attention would be made towards increasing reliability. I bet the rubber pressure tubes have the same or less life expectancy than the membrane. It is a good theory and one I did not think of.

    From people who have installed a cat-back exhaust, I haven't heard anyone complain that the symposer makes for odd cabin noises. I could see it as a concern since the sound is meant to compliment the factory exhaust.

    I am also a fan of the engine sound from the symposer as it is a way to generate desired engine noise into the cabin while not allowing in additional NVH that the chassis engineers worked so hard on removing. It is actually a very well thought of design element. NVH engineers are pushed to get rid of all the noises from operating the vehicle. Performance buyers want exhaust and intake sound as part of the driving experience. The solution is to pipe in intake sound and keep unwanted sounds out of the cabin. The engine is capable of making enough noise on its own, but the NVH engineers have worked the chassis over to remove as much as possible. SVT/TeamRS's solution is very well done, which is why I am so lost on why there is so much hate for it. As for purists, most of the people online screaming for it to be killed aren't who I would consider purists. More like 20-somethings who woke up automotive engineers and have a Facebook account.
    dubtastic likes this.
  7. Tokendog

    Tokendog Member

    Yeah, the symposer in the Fiesta ST isn't artificial noise like it is in a lot of other cars. It's just clever redirecting of the noise from the engine to the cabin. There are quite a few systems that use the speakers or whatnot to put fake engine sounds in to the cabin. The Fiesta isn't one of them.
  8. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    exactly, it is real sound. Engine sound created in a studio and playing on a sountrack thru the speakers is something I would not care for, but real induction sound being piped into the cabin is ok. Perhaps the internet hasn't figured out that it is real sound. I would doubt most ST owners understand how the system works. What it is good for is the aftermarket, which has latched on to the oppertunity to make a product to get rid of something the owner doesn't understand. For them, this is a good thing. Make a product that fixes a problem that doesn't exist but makes people online feel like they fixed the problem. I think the RMM is the same thing. A problem with early production Focus ST's made across the platform to the Fiesta ST and everyone in the aftermarket says you need their RMM to solve an issue that isn't real. The difference with the RMM is that there is actual changes in the car from changing the bushings.
  9. Gpfarrell

    Gpfarrell Member

    I love the sound of my Fiesta and also that its not electronically induced. I haven't tried a BMW with exhaust in the speakers, but that seemed like an incomprehensible solution from the getgo to me. Enhancing "what's there" is very different from creating what ain't there.
  10. Kap

    Kap Member

    I wasn't aware of the potential boost leak issue, but I can see other legitimate reasons for wanting to eliminate the symposer if you have an aftermarket exhaust that you'd prefer to hear, or need/want a quieter cabin for yourself or your passengers.

    I agree that the hate probably comes from the misconception that it's fake, and if it was, I wouldn't be a fan of it either. I wouldn't want an artificial speaker-based "exhaust enhancement", for example, and the ones that let you pick which other car you want yours to pretend to sound like are just ridiculous. It's a car, not a video game. That's like drinking Tang and pretending that it's juice.

    The symposer gives you audible feedback that lets you know what your engine's doing. It's quite possibly embellished, but it's not fake, and if I'm to be completely honest here, it does add to the sportiness and fun factor of the car for me. I haven't driven a FiST that had a symposer delete, but I think it would be an eerie, deathly quiet experience to not have that induction feedback that I've grown so accustomed to.
  11. ryst

    ryst Active Member

    I considered removing it just to make the car even quieter, but it's actually valuable for driving to have the sound of the engine so you can figure out the revs and shiftpoints without having to look down.

    I know someone else on the forums said the ST was too quiet when he was on the track with his helmet on, and he wanted to install an aftermarket exhaust just so he could hear the engine RPM better.
  12. timboslice

    timboslice Active Member

    This. Most modern car are extremely quiet. The symposer is a clever bit of physics/acoustic engineering that uses the specific resonance of the diaphragm to enhance desirable engine sounds. Definitely not fake.

    As for my preference, I currently enjoy the sound. Occasionally, I will find it annoying if I'm on the highway and accelerate while talking on the phone or to a passenger but that's about the only time I don't like it. When I switch out the exhaust, I might find the aftermarket system adds to the highway drone and consider one of the delete kits.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  13. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    yeah, the engine is very hard to hear with a full face helmet and even worse when on the track with other cars. It isn't too bad autocrossing as there is only one gear change (typically) and there aren't really loud cars around you. An aftermarket exhaust does help that issue.

    I can see that an aftermarket exhaust with the symposer might be too loud. I can really see this with an catless downpipe and free flowing exhaust. Yep, I can buy that logic to remove the system. So far, none of the people online screaming for it to be removed have brought that up. If anything, that probably makes the most logical step.

    For whatever reason, most of the members here seem to be far more knowledgeable and thoughtful about the car than what I see on YouTube and Facebook. We may not have the volume of posters as other sites, but the quality sure is better!!
    iLiptiKal and timboslice like this.
  14. Applejack

    Applejack Active Member

    For those who have a 2014, does your symposer tube have a foam core tube it in? My 2015 has a foam core in the tube. Wondering if they added the foam core to the 2015's or no change from the 2014.
  15. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    2014 and 2015 both have the foam core. Oddly, the Fiesta Movement ST had a different designed foam and removing it made the symposer very loud and had a strange resonance. I removed it on my 2015 and it made no difference.
  16. Applejack

    Applejack Active Member

    Thanks! ;)
  17. eRic

    eRic Active Member

    my 2014 also has the foam in it. We removed it and drove around but it wasn't any louder so I put it back in. Oh and there is much confusion regarding the sound symposer in the Fiesta ST vs. the active sound symposer in the Focus ST.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  18. Applejack

    Applejack Active Member

    I'm a genus... going to stick a vuvuzela on the end of my symposer. It will sound like the worldcup is going by. It will be the 2015 performance product of the year. I will make millions! :greedy:

    *Evil Laugh*

    LuvfiestaST, no-pistons and reddog99 like this.
  19. eRic

    eRic Active Member

    train whistle...
    tbST and Applejack like this.
  20. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member

    I similarly don't get the hate. I feel like the 'boost leak' from the Symposer might be a red herring, as well. I know people who swear up and down it helps them spool faster, but I don't really take any of that to heart. I think the car sounds just fine with the symposer. Pretty necessary when factory NVH requirements are what they are these days in order to move cars.
    Smokin likes this.
  21. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    until somebody can bring the tech about better performance, I am not buying the idea that removing the sound symposer makes the turbo spool faster, car more responsive, faster, better MPG, or any of the other claims floating around online.

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