For all you doubters...

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST News and Reviews' started by Applejack, Jan 29, 2015.

  1. timboslice

    timboslice Active Member

    I think that's the paradox. If a hypothetical "RS" made it here, it would probably be more of an "RS light". That's the only business case for making it viable.
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  3. Dyn085

    Dyn085 Active Member

    All of this, a hundred times over. Americans, generally speaking, don't want small cars. When they do want small cars, they don't want to spend money on them-they want a stripped or nearly stripped econobox that doesn't cost them much money. While I haven't seen the overall FiST sales numbers, I can't imagine they are they great when they are directly comparable to a FoST. They see the price and specifications for the FiST and then realize they are getting a larger, more powerful, more comfortable car for the same money when they choose the FoST.

    I love and prefer my FiST over my FoST, but I'm (and many of us are) the minority. I've literally seen more FoST's on the road on one single 16-mile trip home from work than I have seen of FiST's in the entire time I've owned mine (about 8700 miles). Living in a military town means there is plenty of new-car money to be spent, but they aren't spending it there.

    I would love to see a FiRS, but if it's actually going to happen there should already be test mules running around-if not by now then very, very soon.

    I have a secret wet-dream that they announce a FiRS in conjunction to the FoRS on February third. It's not a Ford GT though, so I know it's not going to happen. It would be pretty cool though.
  4. captainmorbid

    captainmorbid Active Member

    If there is a RS Fiesta, it won't be until the MK VIII Fiesta debuts, which should be 2017. So, it's a long ways off still.

    I'm still thinking that Ford Performance is eventually going AWD for RS cars in direct competition with the Golf R, and STIs of the world. We might see whether the FoRS is AWD pretty soon, and I suspect that if it's AWD, FoPo will want to use it on more than a single model. So my guess of an AWD FiRS, might make sense. Whether it comes here if it happens, that'll be where we'll have to hope for 5$ a gallon. :)

    Sent via poles, wires and telegraph 2.
  5. djdennehy

    djdennehy Active Member

    I am in the boat that Ford should make a Fiesta RS, and is probably in the works of making it now... In Europe, where the Hot Hatch is more widely accepted and commonly desired we are seeing extreme versions of Renaults (Clio RS), Citroens (DS-3), and Mercedes (CLA45) popping up left and right and they cost upwards of $40,000 each. With Ford adopting a global line, than what is offered there should also be offered here. All I am saying is that in other markets, the Fiesta RS does make sense and I hope that Ford sends a limited release of the Fiesta RS to the US.
    Mr UFO and Firesail like this.
  6. Pedro

    Pedro Active Member

    I think Ford will make the FiRS as well. Although what I see them doing is putting the 2L Focus ST engine in and tuning it to 275hp with an LSD and larger brakes. Sadly to keep price down I see it being FWD, but with hopefully a wider track and wider tires. That would still be one fun car :)
  7. Mr UFO

    Mr UFO Active Member

    The February issue of EVO magazine claims "twelve hot RS models incoming"

    Let's hope it's true!!!
  8. Removed

    Removed Guest

    I would love a Fiesta RS. But I'm not holding my breath.
  9. Kalter

    Kalter New Member

    I do see a Fiesta RS coming and it's simply because of what Ford said: 12 new performance models before 2020.

    We already know about the Ford GT, Mustang GT500, Raptor and the Focus RS. Those are the only that have been announced that I know of.

    Now, let's do a little exercise here: What else could we have in performance model? Since they built a Fiesta ST and that Ford is coming with a Focus RS, we could assume that a Fiesta RS is also coming, but let's see what else they could bring first.

    There is no Fusion Sport right now, there was one before. So let's suppose that it's one of the performance model (either with a tuned 2.0L à la FoST or the 2.3L). We might see an Escape Sport with the 2.3L maybe? What else? The Edge and the Explorer already have a sport model each, but they might be redesigned and fall in those 12 new performance models. The Taurus has the SHO model, they might add another model or redesign it.

    So let's count: Fusion, Escape, Edge ,Explorer, Taurus, Ford GT, GT500, Raptor, FoRS. We can safely assume the C-Max won't see a performance model and I don't see the Flex having one either. Let's add maybe a SuperDuty performance model.

    That's 10 and I think including the Edge, Explorer, Taurus and SuperDuty is stretching it. That leaves at least 2 for a possible Fiesta RS.

    Sure, Ford could come up with totally new model or old model coming back like the Ford GT, but with all the praise the Fiesta ST got, I really CAN'T see them not doing a Fiesta RS considering the amount of performance car they want to put out until 2020.

    Now, will the car be worth it over the Fiesta ST? Only if it's AWD. I believe that even if it's the same price as the Focus ST, they would not necessarily address the same market. Let's say that for around 25k US you have the choice between a "small" Fiesta RS at 250+ HP AWD or a bigger Focus ST at 250+ HP FWD or a base Mustang at 300+HP RWD. Three very good options, all from the same manufacturer, but appeal to different buyers I believe.

    One thing for sure, if the Fiesta RS is FWD (in fact, if the Focus RS is also FWD) it will be a flop in my book. A normal FiST or FoST can have a shitload of power by themselves and sure the RevoKnuckles are awesome, but it doesn't replace AWD. AWD would make them much more interesting compared to their ST counterparts. For the Focus RS, there is way too much competition at 30k+ that is 300+HP and AWD (STi, Golf R, Evo), they don't have much choice.

    Disclaimer: I'm Canadian, very bias towards having AWD for winter driving mostly, but even for summer, pushing 300+HP (and possibly 350HP according to rumors) it must be towards 4 wheels and even more so if you plan on tuning.
    Canadianguy likes this.
  10. Mr UFO

    Mr UFO Active Member

    I forgot to mention the article in EVO did say Fiesta RS.
    "...updated 1.5 litre Ecoboost with 200bhp+"
    It's on p16 if there are any subscribers here.
  11. Kalter

    Kalter New Member

    Well, the Focus RS has been announced:
    Can't post the link because of stupid rules, so you go try to find it.

    AWD 318HP $38k and a killer look.
  12. Firesail

    Firesail Active Member

  13. captainmorbid

    captainmorbid Active Member

    I wonder where else they'll want to show off that new AWD system... Hmmmm...
    Firesail and Jonnyz like this.
  14. Kalter

    Kalter New Member

    Why would they put their newly and specifically developed AWD system on more than one car, that doesn't make any sense! /s

    They portray it as a performance AWD system. The only other car I could see having it, is a Fiesta RS.

    But I'm a bit afraid they might want to use the Fiesta RS as a successor to the previous Focus RS: High power with FWD and RevoKnuckle. The way I see how they market the Fiesta here, it seems to replace the old base Focus (pre-Fiesta Focus in North America had a choice of 1,6L and 2,0L, now the 1,6 belongs to the Fiesta and the 2,0 to the Focus). So they could use the Focus RS as a really high power AWD and the Fiesta RS as a high power FWD with RevoKnuckle (so more power than the FoST, but maybe 275HP instead of the 250+).

    BUT, since RS stands for Rally Sport (right?) and the Rally Fiesta is AWD... well you see the point. I'm still wondering though if they are going to stay with the 1,6L but with more power, or go with the 2.0L and have about the same power as the FoST, but AWD.

    FoST power and AWD in a Fiesta, I'm buying two as soon as they are announced...
  15. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Besides the shell, there is nothing production Fiesta about the Fiesta RS WRC or GRC.

    The Focus RS, MkI and MkII, were also used in the WRC and the street versions did not have AWD. I think only the Sierra Cosworth and Cosworth Escort RS (besides the RS200) were the only AWD RS models prior to the MkIII Focus RS.

    I don't think the pre-Fiesta Focus, which I assume means the 2000-2012 Focus MkI and Mk1.5, ever had the 1.6L. They had the 2.0L SPI, 2.0L DOHC Zetec, or the rare 2.3L Duratech. The 1.6L in the Fiesta at launch was a first for the US market. The 1.6L EcoBoost debuted in the Fusion and is only related to the normally aspirated version in displacement.

    For the Fiesta RS AWD to make any sense in the US, somebody needs to post something that resembles a business plan of why to do it. There isn't any segment in the US market which a high powered B-segment AWD car is present. The price point for the Fiesta RS AWD would put it directly against the mid to upper level Focus ST. American buyers always default to size and go with the Focus over the Fiesta, unless they are the few of us who want the smallest car available. I see no way for the B-Segment market to support the Fiesta ST and Fiesta RS in the US. Any chassis changes to add AWD to the Fiesta in the US market would need to be recertified at a very huge expense. The Focus chassis is already sold in the US and Europe with an AWD variant, so it would be easier to pass certification using already tested chassis. It is the same if a 3-door Fiesta was sold in the US.

    Sorry, I have been through all of this with the Focus RS MkI and MkII. Thousands and thousands of posts over the past 15 years about crazy speculation based on little facts and questionable relationships. When somebody spotted either the MkI RS or MkII RS/ST in Detroit, the internet thought that surely meant Ford was going to export the cars to the US and they would be available any day now. None of that happened and it took almost 2 decades before the Focus RS became a reality in the US. Start showing me pictures of Fiesta RS mules and I will start to turn the corner.
    Dyn085 and Tim McCarthy like this.
  16. captainmorbid

    captainmorbid Active Member

    There is a market, just not in the land of Big Macs. If it were to develop, it would be in a few years. Post focus RS. The biggest snag in the FiRS is the Focus RS.

    Sent via poles, wires and telegraph 2.
  17. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    far better chance in Europe than in the US. From what I keep hearing over and over again from people is either "I went with the Focus because it is bigger" or "I can't afford a Focus ST and got the Fiesta instead". The market in the US for people who can afford a loaded Focus ST, but want a small Fiesta RS instead is very limited. The Fiesta was originally designed with the upper trim levels to give owners the amenities of a larger car/SUV in a compact size that is good on gas. Sadly, the majority of Fiesta's I see on the road aren't SES or Titanium models, but stripped base models designed for basic transportation. With Fiesta SES/Ti models coming in around base model Focus prices, people jumped to the larger car for the same price and gave up options. How are you going to convince US consumers to buy a smaller car priced the same as a much larger car? How do you sustain the Fiesta ST and RS at the same time? Those of us who can afford a Focus ST, but want a Fiesta ST instead, could easily jump to the Fiesta RS. That takes out a huge chunk out of the Fiesta ST sales. Also, lots of the Fiesta ST owners are still mindful of gas prices, and the extra MPG of the Fiesta ST was a big selling point over the Focus ST. The Fiesta RS with a heavy AWD system with lots of drag won't deliver very good MPG. Again, that tips the scales back to the Focus ST. I can get a bigger car, same MPG, similar performance for the same price? Sold.

    Don't forget about development time. By the time the Fiesta RS would be developed, the Fiesta chassis would be close to 10 years old. The Focus RS is a 2017 model and build on a newer chassis. The Fiesta is a 2009, and I would bet we are at least 1-2 years away from a Fiesta RS. That puts the Fiesta RS as a 2019 model. A decade is really pushing the age limit for a chassis. That would dictate the Fiesta RS would be a MkVIII version. With that being the case, we shall assume a 2019 release of the standard Fiesta, 2020 ST model, and 2021 for an RS. Very rarely does the base, performance, and ultra performance model all debut in the same year.
  18. captainmorbid

    captainmorbid Active Member

    The potential Fiesta RS would definitely be a MKVIII, which if Ford sticks with their model schedule, would debut in 2017 as a 2018 model year, so 2019 might be the earliest we'd see one. Unless the Fiesta RS stays FWD which means, anytime between now and infinity might be possible. IF VW brings the Polo over, or Audi's A1, or Toyota and Mazda shock the world with a Mazdaspeed 2/Yaris TRD WRC in the next few years, we might see a Fiesta RS. But you are absolutely right in the current lack of a business model to support it's existence, but nor is there much business case for a Focus RS existing simultaneously with the Focus ST. Ford is choosing to build performance models to drive interest in the standard models, and Fiesta needs that kind of bump.

    Sent via poles, wires and telegraph 2.
  19. Dyn085

    Dyn085 Active Member

    RS models come at the end of a platforms body life-cycle, not the beginning.
  20. captainmorbid

    captainmorbid Active Member

    And yet Focus RS. Which is mid cycle for the MKIII platform.
  21. timboslice

    timboslice Active Member

    Not really. The MKII RS was a 2010 MY which was the last year of that design. The MKIII platform started with the 2011 MY. The FoRS will be a 2016 MY. So if Ford maintains their ~5 year model life, this should be close to the end of the MKIII run.

    The Fiesta MKVII (or MK 6.5) started with the 2014 MY. So the (hypothetical) potential RS model would be an MKVII 2018 MY.
    Dyn085 likes this.

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