Heel Toe

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Autocross' started by MLKN, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. MLKN

    MLKN Active Member

    Has anyone been able to pull this off effectively with the pedal layout? My race shoes seem to narrow to use the "roll" technique with the ball of my foot and I have a hard time finding enough room to get my heel over there.

    Also, the pedals are almost too close for left foot breaking in my experience.

    I'd love to hear if anyone has any tips. Thanks!
     
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  3. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    Yep, but took some practice!

    My race shoes felt funky at first, but now it's great.

    The pedal height is pretty good for me; it's the brake pedal travel that still isn't great for me.

    Harry's GP allows multiple cameras, but doubt I'll set up a fancy "pedal cam"! :)
     
  4. MLKN

    MLKN Active Member

    Are you using your heel for the gas pedal or using the ball of your foot for both? On past cars I have been able to just roll my outer aspect of the foot to the gas but, in this car, in order to do that the brake has to be almost all the way down (slamming on the brakes).
     
  5. Nik17

    Nik17 Member

    One of my biggest complaints with the car thus far. To be fair, I've only tried it wearing anything other than thin warm weather footwear, so take what I say with a grain of winter salt.


    The only way I've been able to heel and toe so far involves putting the ball of my foot onto the piece of tubular metal that goes to the pedal itself with my heel on the gas. It does not seem remotely safe or very effective.

    One solution I saw posted somewhere was adding shims to the gas pedal so it's closer to the depth of the brake pedal, so you don't need to threshold brake before your heel can reach the gas pedal.
     
  6. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    I do it like you just described. Since this is a muscle memory thing, I took the car for a quick spin to confirm it. Yup, works for me.

    I find that this car doesn't need it nearly as much my lighter flywheel equipped cars! This car might have a bit of a long throw, but it's quite smooth. Having said that, I couldn't seem to find third gear, twice in one session! It's the only time I've heard grinding, but nothing too bad. The video is linked in the road race section for WSIR: HTM. I'm in hot pursuit into turn one and decide to grind my way into gear. I don't think it survives the wind noise. ;)
     
  7. EBinVA

    EBinVA Member

    To me heel/toe is a pain in the ass in this car. I hate the way the gas and brake pedal are positioned, the brake pedal is just barely far enough to the side to make it nearly impossible to use the inside/outside balls of my feet without huge fear of slipping off of one of the pedals and the brake pedal is raised just barely too far for me to rotate my heel over and blip the throttle. I have to wear these huge clunky DC skating shoes to really feel secure that I can get to both pedals. My right ankle is pretty messed up though, it's been broken/fractured twice (and the left one 3 times... college soccer + glass legs = nightmare) and doesn't quite move like it used to (it also clicks when I rotate it...) so it could be an issue specific to my poor beaten down legs more than the car itself. I compare it to my old S2K though where everything was close together which made it so simple to utilize 2 pedals with 1 foot.
     
  8. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    While heel/toe works well enough for me, I would prefer better shifter engagement and shorter throws (like was mentioned with the BRZ/FRS and S2K). I really miss rifle-bolt precision shifts. This seems to be a bigger problem for me than rev matching, when it comes to changing gears at race pace. Between our longer throw and vague engagement, I can occasionally miss a fast shift (and I very rarely do that in any car).

    Aftermarket short-throw kits are very hit-and-miss for me, in terms of resultant feel. No doubt the throws always get shorter. My rod actuated SE-R kit was awesome, but caused nasty NVH. My 300ZXTT was an improvement all around. I'm on the fence about the FiST.

    Anyhow, I'm thinking about changing the MT oil to something more slippery, but I haven't gotten around to doing any research on our particulars quite yet.

    Sorry for the digression, but I figured it was related enough to what we're really talking about! :)
     
  9. spangenb

    spangenb Active Member

    I agree shifter feel is a magic part of driving for me. Speaking of rifle bolt: '64 MGB ;-) The miata loves Red Line MTL. Not sure about compatibility with the FiST.
     
  10. EBinVA

    EBinVA Member

    The last car I autocrossed before hopping into the Fiesta was an S2K and the transmission in that car is just spectacular (as is just about everything else in my opinion, I can't say enough good things about it and I dearly miss my old one :( ). Such good feedback, you always knew exactly when you hit your shift and the car just begged to be driven at 11/10. Coming directly from the mkV GTI I was using as a daily for a few years to the Fiesta though... the Fiesta feels outstanding. The GTI shifted really smooth but the throw felt like it was 4 feet long. When I test drove it I was actually really happy with how short the throw was to be honest haha (compared to the GTI though, not an actual sports car like a BRZ/S2K). If you're feeling down about the Fiesta's throw then hop in a VW for a while, it's like paddling a canoe to change gears.

    I'm with you on the short shift kits too, they're so hit or miss and IMO mostly miss. They get a bit too notchy and have a little too much resistance in them for me. I don't mind most of the B&M kits I've had the pleasure of using though, maybe have a look at them?
     
  11. smatty

    smatty Member

    I'm no expert at driving MT but the way I have to position my foot in order to do it in the ST doesn't even feel very comfortable. If I were needing to do it in a situation where quickness and accuracy was required there is no way I could do it with any amount of certainty or precision. I swear that many reviews I read of the car mentioned its excellent pedal placement for heel toe shifting so maybe I am doing it all wrong...
     
  12. jimclark

    jimclark Active Member

    I'm glad to hear that others are having issues with this as well. I've never been proficient at H-T, foot-roll, or whatever, and I've been trying to figure out a good method to do it in my FiST. Not happy so far, but am willing to concede that as much of the problem might be my skill as the layout. If someone finds a good technique, and especially one suited for someone with smallish feet (size 9), I'd love to see a video of same.
     
  13. eRic

    eRic Active Member

    no problems heel toe'ing my Fiesta ST. it feels similar to my Fiesta with the accessory aluminum sport pedal covers. my shoe size is 11.5 if that helps.
     
  14. MLKN

    MLKN Active Member

    Tell us more.. Are you putting heel on lower part of gas pedal or using the ball of your foot to hit the gas pedal?
     
  15. eRic

    eRic Active Member

  16. jimclark

    jimclark Active Member

    Thanks for the ref. Nothing new, but it's nice to read a good description. And it looks like that reference book has lots of good info.
     
  17. Mightymango

    Mightymango Active Member

    Ross Bentley is known for Racing Driving Education, I highly recommend reading his books and checking out his website.
     

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