Ideal Setup for G-Stock Class

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Autocross' started by djdennehy, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. Mightymango

    Mightymango Active Member

    As an off topic side note : Trevor is coming to an event this Sunday and I am actually driving the FiST so we will see how I compare.
    djdennehy, Couldahadav8 and Cligedy like this.
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  3. Couldahadav8

    Couldahadav8 Active Member

    We have an event down here or I'd be coming too. Be fast!

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  4. conevadr

    conevadr New Member

    Regarding the front bar, is this just to test? any concerns with making the wheelspin problem worse?
  5. Des

    Des Active Member

    Not sure if it's pertinent or not, but I've disconnected my stock bar a couple of times, and it did not feel as if grip got any better.
  6. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Yes i think Doug Gill or one of the SCCA guys confirmed that for me earlier this summer.
  7. Couldahadav8

    Couldahadav8 Active Member

    Sounds pertinent to me. The question is whether a front bar will make it understeer worse like would be expected.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  8. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    I would like for us to work on that with Ford. My message from a regional service manager in July was that they don't authorize adjustable camber bolts and specifically discourage it.
  9. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Guess you didn't see my Nats pictures.

    I'm sorry, and I don't mean to pounce on you personally, but anyone thinking adding a stiffer front sway bar to an improperly handling FWD car will negatively impact it's handling (increase understeer) is getting their suspension info from a cereal box. I have heard this so many times in different forums and still hear the same tired story today.

    Unfortunately the old mechanic's tale, or in this case the uninformed driver's tale, came from Carroll Smith's 1970's work on race car set-up and has been improperly parroted and bastardized ever since. Here it is again: IF a car is set up for maximum sport handling and is neutrally balanced (e.g. a race car), changing roll stiffness front or rear will adversely alter the handling on that end of the car; and IF one end of the car is not working, you adjust that end of the car. Note I didn't say "negatively." So IF my car is handling neutrally, and I increase front roll stiffness I will increase understeer. Get it?

    Since the FiST is nowhere near being a neutrally balanced race car and until it can be set-up into a relatively flat, neutrally handling vehicle, adding roll stiffness to the front will not increase understeer. All you have to do is look at Mini's; the one's with the Cooper JCW package which are relatively flat handling and fast and the slow one's without. We have lots of both around here. Tripoding the way the FiST does (like a stock Mini) is not the most efficient way to have a competitively handling car. A stiffer front bar is the only way to improve front handling other than increasing spring rate, which is not allowed in Street. If I have less body roll, I'll have more contact patch and will get less wheel spin and thus less understeer. The car approaches neutral handling, but of course never reaches it as it is not a race car. As for adding a rear bar, once that inside rear wheel lifts off the ground it doesn't matter if it's 1 inch or 10 inches off the ground, you are at maximum cornering ability for that end. So stiffening the front (the end that's not working) the front tires will work better and I'll have less understeer.

    The other uninformed thing mentioned in an earlier post was the amount of body roll with someone saying the "Konis did not help." (emoticon with a wrinkled brow look) Shocks and struts don't eliminate body roll. They make handling more consistent and affect transition. Look at my pictures and note that IF I had much stiffer struts on compression with the same sway bar and springs, I would still be cornering with the same roll attitude as in the picture. Why? Because either way I would be cornering at the maximum of adhesion and lateral force. A stiffer strut does not eliminate that. What the Konis did was settle the car especially in transition and maintain balance in sweeping turns. Koni Yellow Sports are adjustable in rebound only and according to Koni these parts have less compression force than OEM but more balanced rebound. The stability in transitions (slaloms) was amazingly improved. I could go hard through them without tank slapping like on OEM.

    The FiST obviously needs additional suspension tuning, and if you look at the pictures of GS at you'll see the FoSTs were much flatter in the tight turns. I expect to be much faster next year and right now the Eibach bar and Koni Yellow Sports look to be the best bet. Hopefully the new Dunlops are better as noted above and until someone else comes out with a 225x16, them or the Falkens are the only one's that give maximum grip. And the Falkens have excellent grip despite being 215s.

    Otherwise people's armchair hypotheses never cease to amuse me............
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  10. k757

    k757 Active Member

    As I whisper...... I have the Eibach front sway as I try to keep the front flat. (Crawls back under rock)

    (I'm one who doesn't believe in rotation and also run tire pressures 39/37)
    Smokin likes this.
  11. Cligedy

    Cligedy Active Member

    Just curious, how is the install on a front bar? Piece of cake or 4 hours and 6 smashed fingers?
  12. k757

    k757 Active Member

    I had a tune shop do it. It took them a while (say 90 mins) as the subframe is dropped. The time to put the steering wheel straight took them a few times up/down on the lift
  13. jasyatz

    jasyatz Member

    Yes. you can change the bar, links and bushings on ONE end of the car. You pick. That includes removal or installation(if not factory installed)
  14. jasyatz

    jasyatz Member

    On a lift, takes 30-45 min. mine took an hour or so in the driveway and jack stands up about a foot. First loosen all the sway bar mount bolts and remove the end links. Then You have to loosen the 2 most forward front subframe bolts until they have 2 threads left before they come off. Remove the rear subframe bolts entirely and then remove the stock bar and bench press the new bar in. It's a wiggling and finicky task, but it does eventually go in with a little cursing and praying. After that, buttons right back up.. My alignment didn't even change (I put it on the shop rack the next day just to double check it)

    If the stock Fiesta bar fits, get it. Tons of them on eBay and in scrap yards for $60. I got the Racing Beat bar because I could replace both front and rear and figured if I was going to try both anyway, I'd buy them as a used set. Got them for a steal otherwise I would have gotten the stock base Fiesta bar.
  15. Mightymango

    Mightymango Active Member

    What adjustable links are you guys finding?
  16. Cligedy

    Cligedy Active Member

    I was thinking of the Steeda links if I got any.
    Smokin likes this.
  17. djdennehy

    djdennehy Active Member

    Love this thread...
  18. jasyatz

    jasyatz Member

    I made a set with McMaster Carr stuff. No rubber booties for weather resistance, but they take the bind out of the bar. I can tell you that there's not much bind in it though and the adjustable links are very close in length of the factory ones. Some guys on the Mazda side say there are aftermarket OE units that are beefier than the stock toothpicks. I'll try to find the numbers. I patterned mine after the Mazdaspeed ones.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
  19. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Can you just push the rear sub-frame back up and thread the bolts or did you have to use a jack? Also what torque spec did you use for the sub-frame bolts? Or just tight-as-hell?
  20. jasyatz

    jasyatz Member

    Nope. subframe presses right back in with just you lifting it. Since the front is suspended by the bolts half in, it's not really that heavy.

    As for the torque figures, I did torque them to spec. All values were on the RB instruction sheet (which I can't locate right now but will insert them here whence I find them)

  21. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Well hell, then. What is there to stop me from spending another $200 for a sway bar for the last 3 events of the year? It's only money...
    jasyatz, Cligedy, k757 and 1 other person like this.

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