Intercoolers - Which is better / black or silver / Tube & Fin or Bar & Plate

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Engine Upgrades' started by marc89gti, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. marc89gti

    marc89gti Active Member

    Interesting video trying to debunk the myth about which is better black or silver and general explanation of intercoolers and their construction types.

    But there seems to a fair bit of debate online regarding this issue on color and construction type:

    My two questions:
    1. Which is better black or silver
    2. Which is better tube and fin (Mountune FMIC construction) or bar and plate (Cobb FMIC construction) to name a couple of vendors and the construction types they use.
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  3. ghostwhite

    ghostwhite Active Member

    If you can get it black is better

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  4. Ken@mountune

    Ken@mountune Active Member

    Since you asked.

    As you more than likely know the only real choice for any inter-cooler is the extruded tube and fluxed fin arrangement.
    The main point worth noting is that bar and plate cores are designed for use in oil heaters and other industrial applications and tube and fin cores are designed for air heat transfer.

    The low cost option primarily used is the bar and plate arrangement which is extremely cost effective but has the added penalty of weight, poor heat transfer from the external ambient air cooling source and very high pressure drop internally from its core design. The bar and plate inter-cooler matrix tempts the user into thinking they have purchased a road usable product because it performs extremely well for short periods of time typically on dynos. The mass of the unit is the key to its ability to give good air charge temperatures, however once warmed up it is very difficult for the bar and plate core to dissipate this heat. The other issue with bar and plate inter-coolers are the matrix core density which hinders across core airflow (ambient side). This causes cooling issues for any other radiators or cooling requirements packaged behind it. In other words you get great air charge temperature reduction on a dyno, but the engine temperature sky rockets as the radiator can't get enough cooling because its behind the intercooler.

    The advantage of a tube and fin unit is that it has good heat transfer properties with low weight and low pressure drop across its core. They work much better than any other type of intercooler core. They also allow a higher quantity of air to flow across the outer of the core matrix (ambient) and onto other cooling items mounted behind it like the radiator. This is of particular advantage for road cars as most cooling packs include at least three/four items stacked all requiring airflow. The internal design also helps with reducing pressure drop across the core and this in turn allows a much larger core for a given pressure drop. The only real disadvantage to the tube and fin intercooler core is increased manufacturing cost.

    As most of our products are warranty friendly with Ford the use of the tube and fin intercooler is paramount as it allows us to gain power increases by maximising the cooling pack efficiency with reduced air restriction.

    As for the color - in real world driving the difference is negligible.

    marc89gti, Firesail and Jonnyz like this.
  5. ghostwhite

    ghostwhite Active Member

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  6. marc89gti

    marc89gti Active Member

    The video link I posted the guy tried to de bunk their results.

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  7. ghostwhite

    ghostwhite Active Member

  8. Randy@mountune

    Randy@mountune Active Member

    A good thing to ask yourself is which design do you see on a 997 turbo, Veyron, or X65 AMG? In no compromise cars like the aforementioned you choose the best design; they weren't trying to save a few bucks here and there.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  9. Sekred

    Sekred Active Member

    Hi Ken

    Thanks for such a Unbiased opinion.
    I don't think I have ever seen a more one-side description of the differences between extruded tube and fin verse bar and plate intercoolers.
    If you really want add some credibility to your statements then you need to provide some type of testing data .
    Perhaps COBB would like to respond or any other manufacturer of bar and plate intercoolers for that matter.
    ghostwhite likes this.
  10. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    Wow, I constantly got grief for asking this same type of question(s) before I was banned on the forum you are a staff member on.

    Here is some info:

    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
    15pbfist and FORZDA 2 like this.
  11. Sekred

    Sekred Active Member

    Hi razor

    I can't remember you ever discussing the pros and cons of Bar and Plate verse Tube and Fin intercoolers and I use to follow your posts.
    I thought you got banned for constantly giving one of the staff members shit.

    Here a link that provides more information about Bar and Plate / Tube and Fin intercoolers. It mostly backs up the info you have provided.
    Its very detailed and to long to copy and paste. It also goes into the important of end tank design, its not just the core that is important for a efficient intercooler. and Plate or Tube and Fin?
    FORZDA 2 likes this.
  12. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    I meant asking for proof and data about things instead of just opinions. That was part of the "giving a member shit" you speak of.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
    timboslice, ryst and Dyn085 like this.
  13. Dyn085

    Dyn085 Active Member

    I've never seen any members third-gear datalog with the Mountune IC. That would pretty much solidify whether it's better or worse.
  14. RDgolfer

    RDgolfer Active Member

    Exactly Razor...are we talking facts, or just blindly conforming to a so called "expert"...forums can be fun, but they can also be very competitive...I like facts and fun...Cheerz!!!
  15. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    Since this whole site is sponsored by Mountune I'm going to now bow out of this thread. I don't want to get banned from another forum.
    Dyn085 likes this.
  16. RDgolfer

    RDgolfer Active Member

    Dude...stand your ground...don't leave...You have good knowledge and info...and EFF getting banned..If you have a story to tell, this is where it will be told...
  17. RDgolfer

    RDgolfer Active Member

    This is the best place for the truth about our car...if it wasn't and Nazi like, many would have been banned already...including yours truly...thanks Randy, Rodmoe and the rest...let's keep freedom alive on here...if not, our car is worthless, insignificant, and rust worthy
  18. Sekred

    Sekred Active Member

    Opps, I forgot about that.
    Just to redeem myself, I have a Mountune Quick shift fitted and its Terrific.
    Applejack, RodMoe and Dyn085 like this.
  19. koozy

    koozy Active Member

    yeah, I'm not drinking the kool-aid, gonna need some data to back that up and specifically with relation the FiST.
    Applejack likes this.
  20. aar0n

    aar0n Member

    15pbfist likes this.
  21. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

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