Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Autocross' started by AlanBDahl, Feb 7, 2014.
And which Toyo's you thinking ?? R1R or the R888 ? or ??
Let me make it clear.
I have not yet used the Toyos on the Fiesta.
I have used them on my Mini and only used them on the track.
I used them on three track events (Big Willow) before selling the car and there was still plenty of life.
The size that was used then was 205/40/17 R1R
When I purchase again I will go with the R888.
What I do like about the Toyos is that after getting hot, they don't seem to feel as greasy as the other tires I have tried.
Have you ever run the toyo's in the wet ?? just curious
On a couple of the occasions I did drive them to the track but no, not in any wet.
Wow that's lucky for you .. We don't always have that kinda lucky as our season is kinda narrow compared to yours..
No way do the OEM tires offer the performance that the Dunlops or BFGs have. I have used these before on another car and after a couple runs the surface of the tire was like they were covered with Parmesan cheese. Went to the Dunlop Star Spec and it was night and day in both level of performance over one run and how well they held up over the entire event. Even with two drivers they kept giving. The tread wear rating on tires does not mean anything.
I have been wondering how the car will work with the 225s too. I remember reading an article in Grass Roots Motorsports where they used a RX8 to test the same tire in different sizes and bigger was not better.
My only response would be.
You buy whatever you like and I will do the same.
As for bigger is better GRM did a test last year with the lil honda and if I recall the bigger aka wider tires worked better provided you had wider wheels .. But who makes a 9 inch wide wheel and tire that would fit our cars readily. So if you run a 225 best to fit it to a 8 inch rim provided your car has enough power to hustle the wider tire around the track ..
Have to agree much like motor oil . Tire choice is up to the user if they are happy no problem..
That is true...since I think in GS we are stuck with a 7 inch rim I am curious to see if someone runs the smaller tire options and see how they stack up against each other. I know a guy who ran a bigger rival on his Mazda 2 in STF, he used a 8 inch rim and said the car had too much tire and lost performance.
EDIT: I am speaking in regards to autocross here, not track days
I agree it is personal preference, but results don't lie and if you look at the nationals or most of the fastest guys at a given event they are running one of a handful of tires. Aside from the tire itself, I just don't think running the OEM wheel and tire size is optimal for autocross. But if it makes you happy that is the important thing, and I am sure I will be using it the first couple of events, so I will have a good baseline and benchmark. Not trying to rain on your parade or anything so did not mean to rial anyone up.
Alan, have you considered an autocross only wheel and tire setup? If so, one option is to put skinnier tires on the back than the front. That would induce oversteer from the smaller contact patch, and allow the car to be closer to nuetral on the street. I had a few friends who would do this on FWD autocross cars with good results. I have never gone that way, instead opted for giant rear sway bar, adjustable rear shocks, and up the rear tire pressure. Perhaps a 215 up front and a 205 in the rear might be enough, with air pressure adjustments, to tip the car further biased towards oversteer.
Looking at how easy the additional rear sway bar is to install and remove, it might be good enough to install it the night before an autocross and remove it afterwards for the street. If you really wanted to get crazy, you could have a fabrication shop mimic the sway bar with different diameter tubes to provide different levels of roll stiffness. That would allow you to tune the car based on the event.
I am interested to see if anyone is running a larger rear bar as well. A little extra rotation wouldn't hurt. I just went back and re-read the "Street" SCCA rules and saw that addition was allowed (I thought it was only substitution).
I see Cobb makes one but it is on backorder. Anyone know of any others available?
Isn't the torsion beam different in the ST than the base? From the instructions on the corksport it appears that we would have to share the same torsion beam as the Mazda 2/base fiesta?
Mine is based on driving with these tires on the ST and autocrossing Direzzas in a 3000#+ VW GLI for half of last season.
The Bridgestones don't hold a candle to the Dunlops...like 2 seconds in a 50 second run...
The rear setup is 70% stiffer than the Fiesta NA.
But a good rear bar would not be a bad thing.
Yeah I'm not sure it needs it but if that Mazda 2 one will fit for $100 it is worth trying it out.
Most of this thread belongs under suspension.
And to a large extent it is my fault as I chimed in about a larger sway bar.
For that I do apologize.
We are also talking about two different types of events.
I prefer the larger bars do to the higher speed turns that are achieved on a road race track and not the very sharp turns of autocross.
I will also still stand behind my choice of tires under these conditions as well.
I have run the Dunlops at over 130 MPH and then 90 into a hard sweeping decreasing radius turn.
After a few laps they get slippery.
I have had very good results with the Toyos.
I would like to hear if anyone has tried the Toyos on autocross and how they preformed.
Yea the Z2's are notorious for heating up quickly. Great for autocross because there's no throw away first run but not so great for track sessions.
This is why I am sticking with RS-3's for my track s2000. If you can find a set of RS-3's, they may also be worth a shot. Ultimate grip is phenomenal and they handle heat really well. (but you may have to wait for the RS-4)
One of the reasons the Fiesta is so fun to drive is that it rotates very well, at least on the street. In fact, it rotates so well that I am constantly finding myself taking a tighter line than I expected. Every once in a while I hear the inside brake grab to get the car to go where it is steered. It is truly bizarre on snow. The damn thing just goes where it is steered.
Back on point, I could see a rear bar being worth a shot especially for a top notch driver like Alan. The more ham fisted drivers, myself included, might find the rotation difficult to manage? Tirerack has eibach rear sways for less than 150 bucks. That, of course,brings up the next question, which bar would you try? The eibach is non-adjustable, but it is a fitment for the ST. What diameter? Tubular versus solid? Is the weight worth the possible benefits in rotation?
Anyone seen anything on dampers available for the ST yet? The stock shocks seem pretty phenomenal compared to the stock stuff I have experienced in Mustangs (and even my RX8) over the years. On those cars, Koni's are essentially required with premium stuff bringing some benefit above the simple Koni yellows. Maybe not a necessity on the ST?
Yes my wheels and tires will be autocross-only but I have had poor luck in the past mixing tires plus that option doubles the wear on the fronts. If an adjustment is needed then the sway bar option is a better choice and if I go that way I’ll probably go with the Mazda 2 stock bar for a small change or the eibach mentioned above if I want more of a change. Whether I need to do that will depend on just how grippy of a tire I can find and whether said tire causes the car to push. My seat of the pants guess driving the car on the street is that I will need something but we will see.
If someone wants to have an optional rear sway there is no need to remove it, unhooking and perhaps removing one of the end links will eliminate the bar from doing anything at far less effort.
Adjustable shocks might eleminiate the need for a sway bar too, on my Audi I found thatj stiffening the rear shocks all the way was enought but as so far I don’t have any plans to change the shocks immediately that option won’t be available.
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