Mountune ethanol programming for the Fiesta ST

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST EcoBoost™ Tuning' started by Randy@mountune, May 19, 2014.

  1. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    Also. There is a video floating around somewhere of a ford official talking about running E85 in the fist. He basically says that the fuel system is compatible, its just not tuned for it. Which i personally think this is because the stock car makes give/take 200hp. To run E85 and make that same HP your looking at suppling fuel for give/take 400hp. The fist likely can not supply enough volume to keep up with a stock 200hp fist on E85. Now.... E50 and E30? I think it can very likely keep up. If we use the same high pressure pump the fost uses, then it def can keep up (they are making 380whp on the stock pumps).

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  3. ryst

    ryst Active Member

    Here's a link to the thread with the video, and the guy in the video posts in the thread (i'm linking to his post)

    Also I just checked and he hasn't posted here since Sept 2013

    He says:
    "oh geez.....who let the guy with the camera in. The bit referencing E85.....that section was regarding the 1.6 ecoboost in general which is used across model lines. In other vehicle applications, it is calibrated to run E85 but we didn't do this for the ST. I suspect all the hardware would be ok but you're on your own cal-wise."
  4. RDgolfer

    RDgolfer Active Member

    Hey there any adjustment necessary on the tune for 10% ethanol? That's all we have in my neck of the woods...and I was wondering if a custom tune is necessary for charge pipes and full intake?...and if I wait for the downpipe and exhaust, will the waiting for my intake over a month affect the 45 day period for data logging? and if so, can I apply that time I waited when I purchase the dp and exhaust?....thanks
  5. Randy@mountune

    Randy@mountune Active Member

    This started a while ago; forgot to mention it. It's going very well. :cool:
    RodMoe and ghostwhite like this.
  6. BlueBomber

    BlueBomber Active Member


    I'm really curious if there's a big difference in torque with the E30?
    Thus far how has the ethanol tune behaved in testing relative to a similar gas tune?
  7. Randy@mountune

    Randy@mountune Active Member

    One car has over 270 WTQ IIRC. Haven't seen monster gains in the WHP dept yet.
  8. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    Well let's get craka lakkin on this Buddy;)
  9. BlueBomber

    BlueBomber Active Member

    Interesting, yeah, the reason I ask how much the TQ difference is because of the gains I have seen the FR-S/BRZ kids get 30+wtq out of E85
    Then again those cars make such sorry torque figures anything is an improvement
    I mean, 131tq? An RX8 rotary makes more torque lol
    Firesail likes this.
  10. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

  11. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    I'm very curious, too! It looks like we have some independent shops experimenting with ethanol tuning along with Mountune.

    So far, it sounds like some people have been using OTS maps (not designed for ethanol), but with a modest mix of ethanol fuel. It makes sense that using a mix that is effectively E30, would provide a meaningful improvement in power. I suppose a mix of 91 octane along with enough Ethanol to make E30 would yield about 95 octane fuel.

    Changing nothing else, but presenting 95 octane fuel, should be a nice bump. The ECU would advance timing, and I find our little FiST very sensitive to this kind of change.

    While I have not done this yet, it would be very easy to experiment with. For modest amounts of ethanol, I'm not worried about harming the fuel system (though I remain concerned about "full strength E85"). If it weren't for the fact that my current map requires 100 octane fuel, I'd try it out. I have a station nearby, and I'm guessing plenty other people do too.

    Anyone want to try this setup and report back? :)
  12. Randy@mountune

    Randy@mountune Active Member

    Well, we offer E30 programming. Works well, just like petrol programming. Not sure what else to say about it LOL. :)
  13. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    I've run a couple tanks of E30 with Cobbs stage3 91 oct tune. Its AWESOME. But its also not "optimized" to take full advantage either...
  14. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Randy. Does this mean that you find E30 a good practical limit? The obvious question here is: Why not go with higher concentrations of ethanol, including E85? Do you think that E30 is a safe boundary considering our car wasn't really intended to run ethanol? A few of us keep going back to the Ford engineer that said our hardware was up to the task, but "'re on your own for the cal..."

    Apart from calibration, are there risks with higher concentrations of ethanol?
  15. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    Oh, I bet. It's probably how my car runs on a mix of 100 octane on an OTS 91 map from Cobb or Mountune. :)
  16. Randy@mountune

    Randy@mountune Active Member

    Seems good for people that don't want to run 100 octane. Kind of a hassle if you don't have E30 at the pump and have to mix your own. However, IF you have E30 at the pump it seems that most stations mix it with 87 octane. So that kind of blows, too.
  17. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    My real question is why not E85? I run unleaded 100 octane race gas because I don't have a choice. It's expensive and even less convenient than E85! If I *could* run E85, I might...

    ...but that depends on what you say!

    For instance, can I run your "Rally 100" map with a custom mix that is E50? E60? My local station dispenses E85. I know how to mix the fuel to get whatever we need. If not, why not? I'm after maximum safe performance for track use! :)
  18. Randy@mountune

    Randy@mountune Active Member

    I'm not willing to risk my car on E85, but if you are I can cook up a file for you. The cars are not officially built for E85 so you assume the risks. We know that E30 is not a problem, but E85 is sketchy territory on these cars. E85 requires more fuel, too, so you will run out sooner versus E30.
  19. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    Okay, now we're talking!

    Let's quantify the risk. If we're saying that the risk is that some component of the fuel system may be intolerant of E85, I'm okay with that. My sense is that it's probably okay (mostly based on what that Ford engineer said about our car and relationship to others that are intended for use with E85, with the same hardware).

    If you're saying that the risk is that you cannot generate enough fuel due to maximum flow rate issues of the DI system, I'd be worried.

    I think you're essentially saying "You're asking for something unproven with the use of E85. It might work, but it might not. You assume the risk. Also note that you'll use a lot more fuel since there isn't as much energy in the same volume of E85 compared to ordinary petrol." Is that right? Also, if we're good with E30, why not make the next step of using E50? I'm in either way. If you feel like cooking, I'm game to try it! :)
  20. totusPorcus

    totusPorcus Member

    i tuned my wrx on e85. there were others though that had gone before.

    the biggest risk as i see it with these cars is you run out of fueling, the car goes lean and you trash you motor. that is a real possibility. before i ran e85 in this car, i'd want to creep up on it making sure the car did not reach 100 percent duty cycle of whatever you monitor on these cars (on non DI you monitor injector duty cycle and fuel pressure and stoic and look for knock). if others have not done this before you are on the bleeding edge. in that case i would want to rent a dyno or work with someone who knows how to find the limits of the current system by doing multiple runs while making changes to the maps..

    you can pop a motor in a heart beat. pro tuners do it on occassion and its not pretty..

    btw, im running e30 currently in my car with no tuning, mods or anything else. runs fine. maybe a bit more torque, but its hard to tell. car needs a slightly bigger turbo and supporting intercooler and turbo back and a tune. personally i would not mind pushing the torque curve a bit to the right for a little more top end where it runs out of steam.
  21. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    I'm intetested in E50 as well, but afr wise, I don't think it will be right without a tune...

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