No overboost in 1st or 2nd, respond with short tires?

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Autocross' started by AlanBDahl, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. limbo

    limbo Active Member

    I think what you're missing is that Ford does not want to compete with itself. Why would they make the 1.0 even close to the ST as far as performance goes? No one would buy the ST.

    The reality is this car is going to either (a) be competitive in a slower class or (b) take a whole lot of modification to be competitive in a modified class (where the ST will be allowed same amount of modifications and probably still be faster).

    It could be competitive in a few series/classes : HS and STF in SCCA Auto-x (as mentioned above) and B-Spec for road racing (with Fit's and Mazda2's, et). If you went nuts modifying it, maybe SCCA's SMF but I don't see the point of starting with such a small engine in this class and the super lightweight civics would be hard to beat.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
    Smokin likes this.
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  3. wash

    wash Active Member

    The STs are mystery cars.

    Ford doesn't advertise them and they are priced high enough to exclude them from the average Fiesta customer.

    Its almost like Ford doesn't want to sell them.

    I want Ford to sell a lot to improve our spares situation and give Fiesta customers a low cost performance option because people don't look at the Fiesta as a performance car.

    I think it will give the Fiesta some track success for the budget minded racer too.

    I also think a performance 1.0 might lead to more ST sales kind of like a gateway drug.

    Speaking of sales, I would like to see some numbers because it seems like a trickle with a bunch of people still waiting.
  4. limbo

    limbo Active Member

    The car wasn't designed to be sold to the average Fiesta customer, not sure how that's a mystery at all. It's like saying the Evo's price is too high for the average Lancer consumer. They're completely different markets and, no, they're not as large of markets as the base econo-cars.

    I wouldn't hold your breath for a "performance 1.0"- lookup brand cannibalization. Same reason Honda quit selling the RSX and STI BR-z's don't exist, they don't want to compete with themselves.

    I've only seenTV commercials for the Focus ST but pretty certain they've been hitting the niche market of performance-mided consumers pretty hard. IE Ford Ecoboost challenge, Ken Block fiesta publicity, et
    Smokin and RodMoe like this.
  5. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Same reason VW doesn't advertise the GTI, Subby STI, etc. Hell, when have you ever seen a Boss Mustang commercial?

    Please give thanks to Ford every night for selling enough Fusions, Escapes, Edge's and of course F-150s to allow you to have a plaything like the ST.....

    In fact, a personal letter of thanks to Allan Mullaly seems to be in order!!!!
    Firesail likes this.
  6. wash

    wash Active Member

    Ford Fiesta has about a 12% market share for subcompacts.

    The subcompact segment as a whole is a growth area.

    If Ford makes better Fiestas they will eat the Chevy Sonic, Nissan Versa and Hyundai Accent not cannibalize the Fiesta ST (which they don't seem to care about selling).

    There is certainly not going to be anyone looking for a Mustang or Focus ST swayed to a Fiesta 1.0, the segments are too different.
  7. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Uh huh. So what's your point?
    RodMoe likes this.
  8. wash

    wash Active Member

    My point is that Ford has lots of room to grow within the segment, they aren't like Intel where they have to cripple their entry level product to sell their high end parts.

    There is a reason why Ford only has 12%, its because the base Fiesta is a kind of boring car and if the owner is OK with being bored they won't pay a premium over a Versa or Accent.

    What Ford can do is add excitement to the sub $20k segment and get a lot of the people who don't want to settle but don't have the full $7,000 over a base Fiesta to buy an ST.
  9. limbo

    limbo Active Member

    I still don't fully understand what you are proposing. Having a "performance trim" base Fiesta still seems like it would run the risk of competing with the ST for sales, especially if it uses the same parts.

    No one is suggesting crippling the base fiesta. It does what it does well and maybe having the high end ST to show off the high end is what they'll need to "up the excitement". I just don't see there being a place in the market for a true performance variant of the 1.0 liter. Maybe some perceived performance package (mild aero, et) but the ST parts had to cost considerable R&D and like you said, the base market doesn't want to pay $thousands more - they want an appliance.
    RodMoe and Smokin like this.
  10. wash

    wash Active Member

    The R&D money is already spent, the way Ford makes a return is by selling cars. The actual cost of the parts is not that much more than the base Fiesta and many parts would be equal cost if the production volume is high.

    As for the package I propose it would be exactly opposite of a sticker and spoiler special, it would be base Fiesta with 1.0 EcoBoost, 4 wheel disk brakes with ST rear axle, ST front spindles and whatever seems to make sense for shocks and springs. No sport seats, no body kit and probably cheap 16" steel wheels.

    The ST would still have the exclusive looks and power that the 1.0 can't match without a really serious upgrade.

    The 1.0 would just have the advantage of probably no torque limiting in first and second, choice of 15", 16" or 17" wheels and tires in stock racing classes and lighter weight than the ST.

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