Petition SCCA

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Autocross' started by Smokin, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. Cligedy

    Cligedy Active Member

    The Mazda Speed3 is in DS. It also has an oem limited slip.
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  3. Mightymango

    Mightymango Active Member

    It is in DS ( I should have put that in my petition letter)
  4. Slowclimb

    Slowclimb Active Member

    Oh right...forgot about the limited slip
  5. Slowclimb

    Slowclimb Active Member

    My hope is that with some decent shocks the car will see big improvements. I did an event this weekend on an uneven lot and the car was like not happy...shocks would have been a huge help.
  6. CrookedRacer

    CrookedRacer Active Member

    If you mean at the 2013 Nationals, they weren't all on stock shocks. The #2 placing FoST had double-adjustables on at least two corners. The owner built them himself using Koni inserts.

    I don't think the fact that there aren't yet any shock options out there for the FiST helps the argument for tossing another particular car out of the class, especially considering that particular car hasn't even won at Nationals (the big one, anyway) yet.
  7. Slowclimb

    Slowclimb Active Member

    Actually with the MS3 up in D due to the addition of a diff, then there is no doubt that is where the Mk7 should end up, if equipped with a diff. 210 hp, 258 tq and a diff.
    jimclark likes this.
  8. jimclark

    jimclark Active Member

    Yeah, the MS3 is in DS. And I think that's a very valid comparison.
  9. TRev

    TRev Member

    You have the ability to protest cars and I would have gladly kept my car in impound until it could be scanned by a Ford dealer. Even now after the fact, I will take a polygraph regarding my car at Spring Nationals. I pass pay for it. I fail it and I will gladly not only pay for it but I will also personally send the results to the SCCA to DNF my results. So there is no reason you can't know. If you don't want to back your accusations, you can quit hinting that the cars who beat you are cheating.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
  10. The Duke

    The Duke Member

    Sorta related. Where does the mountune/Cobb/stage 1 tunes fit into SCCA autocross classing? I remember my COBB stage 1 for the STi threw me into a pretty modified class due to the increase in boost pressure. To my knowledge most stage 1 tunes do not increase boost pressure, it's all fueling and primarily timing.

    And on that note, the MP215 kit. The air intake is pre-filter, which falls under the OEM intake classification?
  11. Mightymango

    Mightymango Active Member

    It would put it into Street Prepared, I don't think the official classing for SP has been set yet though.
  12. Cligedy

    Cligedy Active Member

    Hello Trevor, and congrats on your win. I hope you don't feel like this is a hostile environment here. I don't think Smokin was trying to accuse anyone, but that maybe wasn't a good way to second guess the outcomes.

    How have you prepped your car so far? What do you think the strengths and weaknesses of the FoST are so far? It's always cool to know what we're up against. Look forward to driving against you sometime :cool:
    Smokin likes this.
  13. TRev

    TRev Member

    Hi and thank you. Not at all, in fact, Des who is also a member on this forum and owns a FiST will be co-driving with me at Nationals so that should also help rule out a “covert tune”.

    Buschur cat-back exhaust, K&N filter, rear swaybar, custom alignment, and I have two sets of light-weight OZ 17” wheels. I have tested Z2’s, RS3’s, and 595 RS-R’s. I ran the Federals on stock rims for the morning session of the pro on day 1. I then ran the Z2’s on OZ wheels for the rest of the event. I was .2 seconds quicker on the Z2’s but that was also on a cleaner course in the afternoon. The primary strengths of the FoST are acceleration (drag starts, digging out from tighter elements) and steady state grip (sweepers, longer transitional elements). The primary weaknesses are weight/power (surfaces with lower grip, i.e. wet, dirty, sandy, seal coated) and size (tighter elements such as slaloms under 60ft, tight offsets). For me another weakness is that they changed the spring perch on the 2014 models so I cannot get shocks right least not budget friendly ones.

    I had the opportunity to drive a FiST at a Milwaukee event earlier this year. We had two courses setup for our driving school students. I ran the course about a dozen times in my FoST and then ran it twice in a similarly prepped FiST. The course started off with a 5 or 6 cone slalom (around 60 ft), offset, big sweeper, offset, into a few finish turns that were closer to 90’s. After only two runs in the FiST, I was within .2 seconds of my FoST.

    Generally speaking though, on a more National style course…if you set keys in front of me for both the FoST and the FiST, I would pick the FoST. Add the new GTI with LSD, Neon SRT4 ACR, Celica GT-S, and Genesis Coupe R-Spec 2.0 (2010-2012) to the mix and as long as I don’t have to daily drive/maintain/buy tires for them, I would pick the GTI first, Genesis second, and lastly the FoST/SRT4/Celica third (would be a hard choice)….assuming dry conditions. In the wet it would be Celica or FiST or more likely whatever AWD offering looks best (I think the Subaru RS maybe?). Unless the SEB is moving the GTI, Genesis, SRT4 and Celica, I don’t see any reason they should be moving the FoST. Any other questions please let me know.
    Smokin likes this.
  14. TRev

    TRev Member

    Similar things have happened before and will happen again. Course + car + driver will create some head scratching results at times. Ironically a similar thing happened at the Spring Nationals Pro last year in the RT 2WD category. An SRT4 dominated some VERY good drivers (including more than one National champ) in cars that would normally be at the top or within tenths.

    There are a number of things that contributed to my margin over Greg. A few of the more notable ones are: I was driving very well (on a good day in the same car, I have been within hundredths of a second to a ten time National champ…same car over six runs). I have been driving street tires for many, many years as well as other low grip high horsepower venues such as ice racing. Over 90% of my seat time in Solo has come on street tires. The majority of that seat time has also come in FWD or AWD vehicles.

    What classes has Greg been winning in over the past couple of years and what tires do they run? The years of development have been on what type of tire? He was also running Kuhmos at the event and admitted in his testing those were not the fastest tire but they paid the most. How much time was he giving up due to tire choice?
  15. Cligedy

    Cligedy Active Member

    Awesome, thanks for that!

    Locally, I just had my first second place to a FoST this season (stupid 500ft drag start :oops: ) to one of the best drivers in our club. None of us really have prepped cars, so it's hard to judge where we stand. It's great that these cars are as competitive as they are considering the limited shock options. Hopefully sales numbers and big autocross turnout will drive some aftermarket options for us. I'm getting impatient, money's burning a hole in my pocket.
  16. Cligedy

    Cligedy Active Member

    I have a question. What is generally meant by "national style" course? Is it the general speed or how technical the course is? I have only attended one national event and it seemed slower and tighter than what we tend to run locally.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
    ryst likes this.
  17. TRev

    TRev Member

    I will gladly share my experiences. Many of the regions have smaller lots so courses tend to be tighter generally speaking. For example, I have seen slaloms in the 50-55 ft range regionally and very, very rarely ever see anything that tight at a National event. Spacing of gates is another difference. I see more thread the needle stuff locally Generally at National events you have a bit more choice in the line that you take. Regional lots often have immovable things to work around or funky lot layouts whereas air parks like Lincoln have large areas of open concrete. I have definitely used third more at National events than locally so speeds on average have tended to be higher compared to most of the local events I have run.
  18. jimclark

    jimclark Active Member

    TRev--I don't believe that Smokin intended at all to imply that you or any other individual has/had a "covert tune". I took it as merely an aside comment, acknowledging that there are things which one can never or only with great difficulty know. The presence of electronic/computer tunes is such an animal, obviously, and something to be aware of in this day of proliferation of same. On re-reading his comment, I can see how it may have come across differently than intended. I'm sure he would not have wanted it understood as impugning you, however.
  19. TRev

    TRev Member

    Hopefully you are right and my inference was wrong. I was surprised to see Smokin's comments as he didn't seem to have that attitude at the event. My offer is open to anyone who may think I cheat though as it is not the first time I have experienced such allusions. I know polygraphs are not 100% but they are effective enough that law enforcement, the FBI, and various other employers use them so it should erase any reasonable doubt if someone wants further proof as to the validity of the results.
  20. jimclark

    jimclark Active Member

    I certainly believe that to be the case. He is a friend, and I believe I know him well enough to be very confident that he did not intend such. Sometimes our online comments can seem a little crusty, or be understood differently than we intend. It is why our English teachers wanted us to pay attention and think carefully about grammar, syntax, spelling, punctuation, and all that other stuff--they knew we were going to need those tools and skills, and their maladroit use, or even simple laziness in their deployment, can prove to be the father of misunderstanding. This all said, I'll let him speak for himself on this matter from here forward.
  21. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    No, I meant last weekend at the spring Nats. I was there.

    And no I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, I just listed multiple things that can happen. Trevor you were smokin' out there. Times show the wet course was an equalizer but there was not enough comparable power in the dry. And it wasn't just your performance, FoSTs would have been 3rd, 4th and 6th against well sorted Audi TTs in DS.

    Even my buddies said the difference was acceleration. And the FiST has tons of body roll which I'm still trying to figure out what will help.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014

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