Porterfield R4 (and R4s) Race Compound Brake Pads

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Road Racing' started by McRib 1s Back, Mar 28, 2014.

  1. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    Been a while but I will update here also. While I liked the R4s pads I had them in for about a week with great feel and normal dust and no noise. The next weekend we went to a HPDE at Road America on Sat. Then AutoX on the Kart track there on Sunday. Sat. was a total of 3 twenty minute sessions on the full 4+ mile track with the last session being closer to 30 minutes. And Sunday's event was 7 runs on the AutoX course. The car was trailered there and back so no hiway wear was incurred. When I swapped out the track wheels on Monday I found the rear brake pads down to less than 1/16th inch pad left on the drivers side and 1/8th inch passengers side left. Mind you only one weeks minimal driving on these great street pads. Now RA is a big track with a reputation of eating brakes on cars. I was stunned that the rears were gone and the fronts looked like new almost. Only thing we think it could be was Torque Vectoring as I had ESC in Full Off every run.. Other than that the pads and the car are great fun.
     
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  3. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    I still think you're looking at a TVC problem. Your car was probably using TVC a lot more than my tracks cause here with my car. Just to add another data point, my car with a bit more use than you've described, has my pads looking "almost new" (but it's having its way with my rotors). ;) It's not scary, and totally expected. I have a spare set of rotors standing by.

    Something else that came up is the concern for their lack of quality control. They're a small shop, and can suffer batch problems. While I have never had an issue, all of my friends that race with these have at least one bad experience story of them chunking. I bring this up because it's a factor for repeat buyers. I've been lucky. It's possible this is a thing of the past, but I wanted to mention it.

    I now have a set of Hawk race pads but haven't tried them yet. That's a story for another thread!
     
  4. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    ...oh something I missed here is what the mix of race and street compound was. I'm only referring to R compound, and that is a meaningful difference too. As is the case with other street compounds, they fall down on the track. I think you said that, but I didn't catch that the street compound was out back. I thought you had a full set of both.
     
  5. MLKN

    MLKN Active Member

    FYI, they give a 10% NASA discount (at least that was what I was told verbally when I ordered. Just have your member number handy.
     
  6. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    I ran BP-30's up front and OEM out back at Thunderhill last month. I was concerned but it felt good under braking to me and Thunderhill can be a brake heavy track. I kept checking the rear pads and they barely wore the whole day.
     
  7. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    There ya go I have since put a set of Hawks in the rear for now and working with Carbotech to get more options. That said my rotors look like new both factory take offs and the stop tech slotted cryo treated I have on now.
     
  8. carramrod

    carramrod New Member

    TVC is active on the rear wheels? I thought it was a front wheel only thing...
     
  9. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    I thought that too.. But something nibbled at my brakes in the carousel at RA lol And being I have a LSD I know it wasn't front wheel spin or slip...
     
  10. carramrod

    carramrod New Member

    That's interesting. Highly doubt TVC because it's a drive wheel only thing.
     
  11. meFiSTo

    meFiSTo Active Member

    The complete standard Carbotech line is pretty much available now (AX6 to XP12 or whatever). Vendor www.knsbrakes.com has them. I've been trading email with Nick there about availability just the past day or so. Too late for me this season, but I'll be getting XP8s front and rear next spring, along with Castrol SRF, and Goodridge brake lines. Quality solid, vented rotors have worked for my needs. No issues with Centric for track application in the past.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
  12. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    I've read many things on this and never got a clear answer whether it's one or the other but based on my experience. I would be curious for any clarification.
     
  13. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    I'll have to check them out :)
     
  14. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    No, it's true -- TVC uses brakes on the rear wheels. It's trying to simulate the type of rotation you might get on RWD.
     
  15. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    It occurs to me that the clarification needs to be for the stability control side, not TVC (brake based torque-vectoring control). We're talking two halves of one complete system.

    Stability control is certainly a drive wheel only function. The system responds to wheel rotation that exceeds road speed and retards throttle input. Here there are two modes that effectively split the difference in how much aggression is allowed. The important point is that "off" means off for this system.

    On the other hand, TVC makes liberal use of the rear wheel sensors/brakes and performs yaw control through the use of individual brake application. There isn't a way to turn this off short of replacing the ABS module or by manually defeating ABS/yaw sensors.

    I've taken the "replace the module" approach. Sadly, I have not had time to test the results. I'm very optimistic based on what I know about other Ford racing products.
     
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  16. carramrod

    carramrod New Member

    Hmm, here's the press release on the 2012 Focus and Torque Vectoring. It states drive wheels only modulation.

    Ford Technology Allows New Ford Focus to Carve Through Turns Like a Downhill Skier
    • The all-new 2012 Ford Focus features standard torque vectoring control to increase vehicle stability in turns by applying slight braking force to one side
    • Torque vectoring control is a Focus class-exclusive feature that serves as a confidence-builder for novice drivers, while pleasing enthusiasts with added control when cornering
    • Torque vectoring control provides stabilizing braking force to an individual drive wheel in a similar way that a skier or board-rider would shift weight to carving edge when turning

    The all-new 2012 Ford Focus is the first beneficiary of a new class-exclusive Ford technology that employs downhill skiing and snowboarding moves to increase vehicle stability in turns.
    Engineered to increase novice driver confidence by adding a finer sense of control in curves, the next-generation Focus will please enthusiast drivers as well with the addition of a vehicle stability control system previously reserved for premium sports cars.
    "The new Focus is the first North American Ford vehicle to offer torque vectoring control," said Rick Bolt, program manager for the Ford Focus "This is a technology that has been offered on high-end sports cars, yet Ford is making it standard on their new small car."
    Just as a downhill skier or board rider shifts weight to their outside edge in transition from schuss to edge– adding balance and stability to carve through a turn – torque vectoring control provides slight braking force to the wheel and the tire that is subject to potential slippage to help the driver and vehicle gracefully negotiate the curve.
    The slight braking pressure applied to just one driven wheel is imperceptible to the driver. The behind-the-wheel experience is an improved sense of stability and control throughout the curve. This increased vehicle stability in cornering situations is sure to please enthusiast drivers yet serves as a confidence builder for novice drivers as well.
    Torque vectoring control uses the Focus braking system to imitate the effect of limited-slip differential, constantly balancing the distribution of engine output between the driven front wheels to suit driving conditions and road surface. When accelerating through a tight corner, the system applies an imperceptible degree of braking to the inside front wheel, so that more engine torque goes to the outside wheel, providing additional traction, better grip and improved vehicle handling.
    The system is designed to delight experienced and enthusiastic drivers but also to provide less- experienced drivers with confidence and a better sense of vehicle control, especially in difficult driving conditions.
    "Torque vectoring control elevates the dynamic capability of the entire Focus model range, from an S series sedan through a Titanium Sport Package hatchback," said Bolt, an automotive enthusiast, frequent road course track-day participant, instructor, former Sports Car Club of America racer and – not surprisingly – downhill skier.
    "Because torque vectoring control is on all our Focus models, it will elevate skill sets across a broad range of drivers," Bolt said. "The new Focus is differentiated from other vehicles in the segment by style and design, the technology it contains and the superior driving experience it provides."
    The all-new 2012 Ford Focus goes on sale in early 2011.
     
  17. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    That is interesting. While the Focus and Fiesta ST both have TVC, there are known differences (I've read that the FiST is a 2nd generation system, tuned differently, but that alone doesn't explain anything).

    Keep in mind "all new...early 2011" in the above is talking about the first year of the FoST. That aside, I'm inclined to believe the electronics are more alike than not.

    Perhaps this really is the case, but other sources say "front and rear wheel" as in this current 3rd party AutoGuide review (FiST v. BRZ):

    (this snippet here)

    upload_2014-10-10_14-10-38.png

    I'll dig further into this. I know that I don't want it any form for my track car!
     
  18. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    There is a video floating around with a Ford rep talking about the system. Somebody asks that very same question and if I recall correctly it is all four but my memory sometimes lets me down. ;)
     
  19. McRib 1s Back

    McRib 1s Back Well-Known Member

    Yep, I recall something along the same lines. Also, the weird feeling on the track causes a front to back sort of boogey that certainly *feels* like something in the back. I suppose just creating an unnatural rhythm up front would do it. Like it's been said a bunch by now, it's just not able to keep up with a heavily modified car on the track (in terms of suspension, R compound tires, aggressive camber, etc.).

    I'm doing a bit of travel for work (Hong Kong for a week!), so my Ford Racing ABS module road-testing is taking a back seat, again.
     
  20. MLKN

    MLKN Active Member

    I need some help here. I just installed the pads and went for a low speed drive to test the breaks. Now I have a horrible scraping sound with driving all the time. Not just with break applied. What is going on or is this normal? Thanks. R4-s pads
     
  21. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    Make sure you didn't bend one of the heat shields behind the rotors when you swung the caliper back.

    Also, did you bed in the pads?
     

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