Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Autocross' started by WRC Fan, Aug 14, 2013.
What class do you think that the Fiesta ST will slot into?
If we are Talking SCCA last I read they are combining G stock and H stock into the "new" Street tire series as GS for G street. I have seen the Car in G Stock via the Fiesta movement and read a few forums where the thought was G stock do to the power an weight and size of the car. But at this point its all just talk till the rules come out written in stone for the 2014 season.. (I feel sorry for any H stock cars they will have a tough rode against those G stock cars)
I've been out of the rules and classing for a while, but when I heard the Focus ST was in G-stock, I was shocked. That car just a few years ago would have been in DS with the Mazdaspeed 3 and my SVTF was in GS for years.
Since the FoST is in GS, I wonder if the FiST will be in the equivalent of HS.
Last I read was Stock going away replaced by Street Tire class's(140 wear rating 14. 200 wear rating for 2015) and G and H combined but last I read it wasn't written in stone yet ..
You are probably correct. I haven't autocrossed regularly in a few years. I just can't see the FoST and FiST in the same "stock" class
You are not alone ...
Not everything the SCCA does always appears to make sense.
That being said, I think the Fiesta ST will be in G Stock while it still exists (I think next year is a transitional year so people can burn up their R-Compounds) and then continue in G-Street after (which will be mostly G & H Stock on street tires).
Seems like maybe a bit much for FSP but not enough for DSP so we'll see where it lands there. If I end up with a Fiesta ST I'll probably end up in SP and let that guide my mod money (reflash and IC upgrade OK, turbo has to stay, emissions open, suspension/brakes as needed, etc.).
As long as it stays 4x108 I've got a head start on buying wheels/tires.
Boy, there's an understatement.
I've given up on trying to find more than caveman logic on their classification "strategy".
I am a regular SCCA ax'r and have a call in to Topeka to get an idea. As was noted above SCCA can make some totally off the wall decisions like this Spring when they wanted to make changes for the newer FWD cars allowing them to be more competitive and "fun" to compete, and then shot the whole mess down the drain by not making any significant changes.
That being said, the R-comps will not be allowed in the new classes after THIS year. Stock (A-H) will turn into Street (A-G) and 140 TW tires will be allowed in 2014 and 200+TW 2015 and on.
There will be a "Superstreet" class using PAX indexing next year for those who want to continue wearing out their R-Comps.
RTF, RTR and RTA will go away apparently.
G-Street would be a good fit, but don't be surprised if the Fiesta ST is not classed in D-Street along with JCW Minis and AWD Audi TTs. Same hp, approximate weight. I would also love to see it in STF but that is for low hp cars so modified Fiesta STs will probably be placed in STX like GTIs are currently.
OUCH! If the FiST is placed in STX, competing with the bimmer crowd will be TOUGH. Here's hoping they stay in STF. The FiST doesn't really make that much more hp than the SVTF, 195 vs 170.
I think STX would be a fun class for the FiST, the BMWs don't actually have that much torque/power, and the ST should be able to get some more torque from a tune. The main problem will be figuring out how to fit 255mm tires under the fenders. If that is possible, with some weight savings, higher spring rates, and a tune, the FiST should be very fast. For reference, the FRS/BRZ are approx the same weight as the FiST, with much less torque and similar power, and are somewhat dominant this year so far, at least in the hands of Andrew Pallotta...
I submitted a letter to the SEB to have the 2014 Fiesta ST classed in Stock/Street. It will be either D or G Stock/Street. Also I asked where they think it would go into Street Touring and most likely it would be in Street Touring Xtreme [STX] where the 2013- Focus ST is now.
Not much more horsepower but the Fiesta ST crushes the SVT in the torque department.
My tuned SVT puts down 140lb.ft while the FiST is rated at 214lb.ft. at the crank so even estimating 15% drivetrain loss the FiST should be around 180lb.ft. at the wheels.
Hi guys. First post. Been lurking for a couple days. It has been a while since I autocrssed but my guess is that it would be in H stock along with the 4th gen Prelude Si and Eclipse GST. They make around the same power and weigh around the same.
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Keep in mind that next year there will be no HS class. HS and GS are being merged together into G-Street.
SCCA is comparing Fiesta ST to MINI Cooper S [D Stock] based on their similar horsepower, curb weight, wheel width, turning diameter and wheelbase.
That's weird, they didn't compare the Focus ST to other similar D Stock cars (Cobalt SS Turbo, Mazdaspeed 3). Then again both of those cars have real limited slip diffs in them.
Not Sure but don't they also consider how wide the car is too? Should be FUN no matter where it ends up since most class's are getting a shake up I would think ..
No it's performance, hp and weight. BTW two different Focus ST's placed 2nd and 5th in G-Stock at the SCCA National Championships last week. And if anyone has ever been there, that's no easy feat! CONGRATS TO GORDON MACIULEWI!
The competition and intensity there is like qualifying in F1. Over 1200 competitors competing on 2 courses and over 7200 runs in 4 days.
The 2nd place GS Focus ST was out by only 0.004 of a second after 2min 17 secs on course. Like doing quali........You get three hot laps and then your done.
It would have been a massive victory over perennial GS winners, the '03 Celica GTs but alas, the Celica won. The GS winning time was 136.893.
The DS winning time (now dominated by late 2000's Audi TT Quattros; 6 of the top 10) was 133.021. So there is 3.8 seconds difference over 2 courses.
Audi TTQ DS P1 times vs. Focus ST GS P2 times: 56.439/58.384; 76.582/78.513 (+1.945; +1.931). So there you have the best performance comparison of a Focus ST vs. a V6 Audi Quattro.
Is the Fiesta ST 2 seconds faster than a Focus ST? Could be, but the Focus had to have been running 245/40x18s if not 255s. I know the Audi's run 265s. Can the FiST compete with 215s? That's the big question. My buddy running a turbo Mini (DS) runs 245/35x17s and placed 3rd in Road Tire FWD (59.573/81.086) (+1.189; +2.573).
Right now, based on what I can find at Tire Rack, the optimum tire-wheel combination is 225/45x16 Toyo Proxes R1Rs on 16x7 wheels. Based on what I've seen the dia is the limiting factor and has to be under 24".
BTW, I'm all about the competition performance of these cars; I'm not the parking lot tuner type. I usually run about 20 autocross weekends across the midwest adding up to around 130 runs plus testing. (The GTI spun a bearing on about the 300th run...)
Next year there will be plenty to keep you updated with a FiST if all goes as planned!
SCCA was trying to update the rules earlier this year to allow the newer, heavier, FWD, no front camber cars to be competitive but then slogged around in their own crap and did little but to ban R-Comps for next year. Typical of committee work. But the good news is Ford gave the FiST some negative camber on cornering and a boosted engine with light weight. From the autocross photos by BRGT350 there is still too much front roll but that can be corrected. Ford lowering it an inch is still a limiting factor in wheel and tire but who knows where we will end?
If anyone has an inside with Ford ST division engineers and competition, send me an IM.....
Shoot 24 inches eh ... looks like i'm tire and wheel shopping for winter as well as summer ... mine all are nearer 25 inches (dia) left overs from my last car ..
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