Stage 1 1/2

Discussion in 'COBB Tuning' started by Bahkaboy, Oct 2, 2014.

  1. Bahkaboy

    Bahkaboy Member

    Anyone else here running a cobb stage one with a cai? Our intercooler seems to be doing a pretty decent job from what my accessport is showing. Sooooo, I decided to test a theory, and run stage 2 maps. I ran the numbers by a buddy of mine who works as a Ford tech, and Loe and behold, much more power than stage 1, with no adverse affects according to the guage readings on my accessport. Hmm

    Thoughts?
     
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  3. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    Decent job to you must be different than others. A 30-40*+ rise over a single gear pull is far from decent. An upgraded FMIC shows 3-5* increase with the same ambient temps.
     
  4. Bahkaboy

    Bahkaboy Member

    Wa
    I'm running about 10 over ambient. If I push the snot out of it maybe 20.
     
  5. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    Charge temp or intake temp? Have logs? I don't believe it. A single gear pull on the stock FMIC even in 50* temps gains at least 20*.
     
  6. Bahkaboy

    Bahkaboy Member

    Charge temp. Huge increase in torque! Wtf? My intake temp also runs very low. I'll be happy to log it. Running an engin intake and custom exhaust.
     
  7. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    I never said anything about huge increase in torque. I already have datalogs before and after the FMIC upgrade. I've posted this on every FiST forum.
     
  8. Bahkaboy

    Bahkaboy Member

    I'll do a 3rd gear pull tomorrow.
     
  9. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    running the stage 1 Mountune map, I am seeing 20-25'F temp increase under hard acceleration in 2nd and 3rd gear. It has been pretty consistant all week with that increase, and that is over ambiant. The highest temp I have ever seen on the AP was in slow moving traffic in which is climbed to 45'F over ambiant. Once I got moving, it started to drop. This is with the drop-in filter, and silver wrapped induction tube. Adding the gold foil wrap this weekend and working on sealing the intercooler to the bumper a little better on the sides.
     
  10. Bahkaboy

    Bahkaboy Member

    I wonder if I have a faulty sensor?
     
  11. Bahkaboy

    Bahkaboy Member

    I've read about how the larger intercooler can drop the temperature by I believe it was 30 degrees. If mine did that I would be running 10-15 degrees below ambient. How could it be possible that I'm not seeing such high charge and intake temperatures?
     
  12. Dyn085

    Dyn085 Active Member

    An intercooler doesn't drop temperature by a specific number of degrees, and it can't go below ambient without additional help from something else. It's just not possible.

    Definitely interested in seeing datalogs because what you're saying just won't happen. If you're legitimately seeing such a small increase then you have a faulty sensor.
     
    BlackBird likes this.
  13. Bahkaboy

    Bahkaboy Member

    I agree. Should I do a log in just a 3rd gear pull or over a longer drive? I'm new when it comes to turbos and remapping. I'm use to working on older muscle cars that have carburetors. So forgive my lack of knowledge.
     
  14. Dyn085

    Dyn085 Active Member

    Log a third-gear pull starting at around 2k rpm using the default data-logging configuration. If you have a safe area and do one in fourth you'll see even higher temps.
     
  15. Bahkaboy

    Bahkaboy Member

    I just ran a 3rd gear run wot and my temps did shoot up. 67 degrees ambient to 94 degrees charge. Is that safe? That is running stage 2 map. I don't know what was up with yesterday. I'm going to revert back to stage 1 map unless that temp increase is safe. Any ideas?
     
  16. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    It doesn't take much hard accelerating to start seing the temps rise. The temp rise you are seeing isn't too much different than what I see during a 2nd and 3rd gear run with the Mountune tune. It is crazy seeing how fast the temp jumps under acceleration. I haven't data logged the runs yet, just monitoring peak temp seen on the AP during the run. I am also new at this, but a max temp of 94 degrees with 67 ambiant doesn't seem too scary. Where the problem comes in is when it is 90 degree ambiant and the air charge goes up the 27 degrees to 117. Depending on where you live, that could be almost a daily issue, or for me, almost never.

    The best solution is an upgraded intercooler or other methods to improve the efficiency of the stock intercooler, but that is only a stop gap since the intake air under acceleration still climbs much higher with the OEM intercooler versus an aftermarket one. The graphs really tell the story. The OEM intercooler sees a rapid climb in intake temps, much like what you and I are reporting, while an aftermarket graph has a temp line that is almost flat across the same acceleration. I am improving the OEM intercooler by wrapping the induction tube, part of the airbox, and cold side tubing with heat reflective foil along with sealing the intercooler to the bumper. All of that stuff will work with the upgraded intercooler as well. It surely doesn't get away from upgrading the intercooler, but does help with temps.
     
  17. Bahkaboy

    Bahkaboy Member

    I wonder during the cooler months if running stage 2 is ok? I was planning on running stage one until February when I get the upgraded turbo and intercooler. I don't really push my car that hard and never hit the 7k limiter. But man the torque increase from stage one and two is huge. Makes me not want to revert back to stage one unless I'm going to fubar my motor.
     
  18. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I am sticking with stage 1 during the winter. The ST already struggles with traction with snow tires on the stock tune, I don't want to add any additional torque or power. From December until March, it will be rare the ST will even be able to travel at posted speed limits and rev more than a few thousand RPM. I could probably get away with the boost set to 0 psi.
     
  19. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    Here is a bit that I had posted awhile back. Green is stock FMIC and red is upgraded FMIC.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. razorlab

    razorlab Active Member

    Some more:

    014 Fiesta ST
    Power mods:
    Custom Tune (by me)
    E30 fuel
    AIRTEC fmic
    Boost: 22psi peak to 14psi at 6500rpm

    3rd gear pull
    Intake temp start: 81.8F
    Intake temp end: 80.2F
    Charge temp start: 83.5F
    Charge temp end: 86.7F
    Charge temp increase: 3.2F
    Delta of end intake temp and end charge temp: 6.5F

    3rd gear pull, directly after above, slowing down to low rpm
    Intake temp start: 82F
    Intake temp end: 80.6F
    Charge temp start: 84.4F
    Charge temp end: 88F
    Charge temp increase: 3.6F
    Delta of end intake temp and end charge temp: 7.4F

    3rd and 4th gear pull to 5400rpm in 4th gear
    Intake temp start: 82F
    Intake temp end: 79.4F
    Charge temp start: 83.7F
    Charge temp end: 86.4F
    Charge temp increase: 2.7F
    Delta of end intake temp and end charge temp: 7F
     
  21. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    The data pretty much matches with what my research is pointing to for aftermarket vs stock intercoolers. The OEM intercooler gets a rapid temp increase under maximum acceleration. Aftermarket stays pretty flat in comparison. In order to use the stock intercooler and keep temps low, the ambiant needs to be below 60'F. At 40'F, the summer tires have given up any hope of traction. That gives you a very small window that a stage 2 tune would work. You are either temp limited by the intercooler or traction limited by the tires. Really, any temp below 50'F the summer tires struggle for traction unless you really get them warm before putting the power down. There just isn't a way around the fact that for increased power from a stage 2 tune, you need an upgraded intercooler. Even the stage 1 or factory tune would be better with a different intercooler. Consistant power comes from consistant temps, and that needs a better intercooler.
     
    Firesail likes this.

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