Suspension Overview Video with Tim Smith, Engineer from SVT

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST News and Reviews' started by BRGT350, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I met up with Tim Smith at GingerMan Raceway to talk about the suspension and brakes on the 2014 Ford Fiesta ST. Special thanks to Tim for driving out to the track and talking shop with Brandon and I!

     
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  3. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    Great info in the Video Thanks .. One quick question about Torque Vectoring did he say or do you know if it control all 4 brakes or just the front 2 brakes ? :wideyed:
     
  4. amathophobia

    amathophobia Member

    +1
     
  5. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think it is just fronts since ESC would be using all 4 for yaw control. The Torque Vectoring would apply some brake and steering input at the front. I will see if I can find out more.
     
  6. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    Thanks
     
  7. wash

    wash Active Member

    Unfortunately the Fiesta ST has no torque at the rear wheels so I doubt the torque vectoring uses them.
     
  8. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    That's what I was thinking but somewhere I read it uses the brake system not just the front so I was asking for clarification but maybe they were confusing it with yaw control which according to the Vid is turned off. I always thought of the T.V. as a Edif type system hence it would only need to work on the fronts..
     
  9. eRic

    eRic Active Member

    quoted from the 2014 FIESTA ST Supplement:

    "Enhanced Torque Vectoring
    Control
    Enhanced torque vectoring control is
    comprised of two elements:

    Torque vectoring control which applies
    brake torque on the inner wheel in a
    curve for better traction and less
    understeer

    Cornering understeer control which
    controls the yaw response of the
    vehicle under braking and acceleration
    on high and low friction surfaces.

    No action is required to activate torque
    vectoring control. It operates automatically
    due to vehicle operating conditions.

    Unlike electronic stability control,
    enhanced torque vectoring control does
    not slow the vehicle but does help control
    excessive wheel slip and gives the vehicle
    cornering agility. The system only increases
    performance. Because of this, enhanced
    torque vectoring control is not disabled
    when the AdvanceTrac system is off."
     
  10. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    I guess I'm confused if it only controls front wheel slip or rear wheel slip (one or both) in a slippery corner ? Maybe I am confusing this with Traction control.. Oh well no biggy ill figure it out this winter on the ice...
     
  11. amathophobia

    amathophobia Member

    I think maybe what they're doing is using the computer to simulate a LSD by trying to match wheels speeds at the front.
     
  12. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    Yup I agree with that and from what I saw in the FoST arena some have put a real LSD in with good results. not sure it is needed here but it has been done on the FiST's big brother... Just trying ti understand what im getting and how it works.. I like the magic better if I can splain it to another gearhead :woot:
     
  13. Drumr90

    Drumr90 Member

    Ill be watching this vid later today.
     
  14. BRGT350

    BRGT350 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    There might be a little electronic voodoo that makes it all work. All I know is that the system does a pretty good job, even if it is complicated. A mechanical LSD would not be a bad idea.

    If you read between the lines in the interview, you get the impression things work pretty good with the Fiesta ST. With that being the case, be advised that any changes you make may throw off the balance that has been created with the suspension, brakes, and power. I am going to try a set of different 17" wheels and wider tires next month to see how that changes the car. I don't plan on keeping the stock wheels, but adding heavier wheels, a different offset, and different size tires may be the wrong direction. Heavier is surely wrong, but not sure how much difference it will make. With my 2011 Fiesta, adding the 17" wheels makes the car feel like it is a tug boat. Going with 14" wheels in the winter really makes the car feel quick. With 197hp compared to 120hp, the wheels might not be a huge drag. There are just so many things on the ST that just work. The more I drive it, the less I want to change it.
     
  15. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    Looking forward to it .. With the tire size so close staying with a 17 inch wheel is going to be fun at best and if you get a lighter rim to offset the weight of the smidge bigger tire it might be a wash but that's the fun of testing right find what works and what wont :) its only money right ?? :wtf:
     
  16. D1JL

    D1JL Well-Known Member

    I have been looking into wheels for the ST.
    Unfortunately there is not much out there at this time that keeps the OEM fitment.
    The biggest problem is the offset.
    Most of the wheels are a 40mm offset and that would push the wheel outboard too much.
    I do agree with Brian in this regard and want to keep the OEM spec.

    Dave
     
  17. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    So I read this and it only make me think hmmmm they might be confused I know I am... Wish my car was here so I could just drive it instead of cruising the web .... Lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  18. wash

    wash Active Member

    Electronic LSD just reads the ABS wheel sensors and applies breaks to the faster wheel if there is a large difference in speed and with the way an open diff works, that transfers torque to the opposite wheel.

    Electronic Stability Control applies the brakes to control unintended yaw movements.

    Torque vectoring applies the brakes to add yaw movement when you turn in.

    Adding a mechanical LSD will probably screw up the torque vectoring and possibly give the ESC less control over yaw.

    Mechanical LSD might be an expensive step backward.

    You might be thinking "its hitting the brakes and slowing me down" but that's what a mechanical LSD does, its just hidden in the axle.
     
  19. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    They have been adding the Quaife LSD to the FoST for a while now with no horror story's infact it seems to work seemlessly with T.V. on them. That said the FiST may use a different algorithms for the Ecu or abs so it may not be the same result. Plus this would really only be needed if you were to say bump the power well north or 250 whp then there is the torque steer effect lurking too. But it's fun to think on while one wait for their car.. From all I've read I'm either going to love it as is or wish I bought a FoST .. Lol I know the later wont happen... It's all good
     
  20. Soundman22

    Soundman22 New Member

    I will say that from tracking the ST, you can feel the inside wheel wanting to let go. More so when autocrossing and the TC full off. I think adding a LSD would really help the car out. On really tight corners were the worse when you go to put the power down. When I get my own, putting in a short throw shifter and a LSD would be high on the list of mods. I really don't want to change anything else with the car. It is so balanced between power, brakes and handling, I don't want to mess that up.
     
    RodMoe likes this.
  21. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    Thanks Brandon May I ask how you feel about arm rests and clowns ?? LOL jusy kidding with ya like I do your Bro... :rotfl:
     

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