The Smoking Tire 100 Octane Stage 3 FiST video

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Chat and Discussion' started by BlackBird, Dec 24, 2014.

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  1. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member



    The short end: 240whp / 318wtq on 100 Octane from their Stage 3 Fiesta ST camera car (protuned by Cobb in CA).

    The long end: Matt spends about 10 minutes gushing about how much of a mountain pass / canyon weapon the car is. :D Can't wait to see them add suspension, braking, and other handling mods now that it has close to the upper limit of what you can do on the stock turbo.
     
    Mr UFO, Jonnyz and bryramos like this.
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  3. Applejack

    Applejack Active Member

    Watched this video this morning while taking a crap. Yes, my craps take a long time. And yes, I need more fiber. Just sayin...
     
    aar0n likes this.
  4. bryramos

    bryramos Member

    You were gushing throughout the entire video. Looks like loads of fun with the horsepower and torque!!!
     
  5. Mr UFO

    Mr UFO Active Member

    Would like to have seen ProTune on 91 octane not just 100.
     
    kamakazee and BlackBird like this.
  6. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member

    Here's hoping. They might still.
     
  7. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    Despite what Matt said, the 217whp was on a 91oct pro-tune. He must have just had a lapse.


    Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
    245whp 293Tq V-dyno
    13.3@104mph
     
  8. TheSmokingTire

    TheSmokingTire New Member

    Matt Farah here. First off, thanks for sharing the video! We love our Fiesta ST, and it's crazy fast for a road car.

    Just to clarify, despite what sourskittle said, the 217 WHP is NOT a pro tune, it's the 91 octane COBB OTS map. We have not had a pro tune on pump gas, just yet. In fact, we're quite happy with all the OTS maps, and don't really feel the need for a pro tune, since when we go to the track to get lap times, we plan to fill it with race gas anyway. As a random fun fact, the 91 OTS map + 100 octane fuel will yield approximately the same results as the 91 Pro Tune map with 91 fuel, then you double those gains for the 100 Octane Pro Tune.

    Happy Motoring
    MF
     
    Mr UFO, koozy, Dyn085 and 2 others like this.
  9. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member

    Thanks for dropping by, Matt! I was hoping you would. Thanks for clearing that up for us. It really is impressive what that engine can do with just over the shelf tuning. Also, have fun with our friend Eric's turbo ZX3 today. :p
    ~Kay
     
  10. TheSmokingTire

    TheSmokingTire New Member

    Eric is a nice guy, his car is super fun. It offers a very unique driving experience I haven't really experienced anywhere else. He should drive it more.
     
    BlackBird likes this.
  11. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    Maybe I need to revisit the older "TST fiesta st" videos, but I would have bet you $3.50 that it was stated in the stg3 video that it was tuned on the dyno. But i'm sure being you guys are more familiar with the videos than I am since you made them, and edited them, lol. So that clears that up. Also... Makes my case about what I was saying earlier even more correct. Many members on different dyno's around the country have fallen short BY FAR of those numbers with 93 oct and even E30 with a pro-tune.

    Likely I also said before though... The number that comes out of the dyno is irrelevant. The car is what it is, and its tuned safe and well. Actually, its tuned safer than I would have tuned it, clearly its tuned to be beat on like you did in the video.

    If 217 ( irrelevant or not) was on a OTS tune, then gaining 23whp from oxygenated fuel, and 91oct to 100oct would be extremely easy ( edit: and with a pro-tune vs ots ).

    So I can fully believe the gain in power (23whp from otS 91oct to oxy 101 oct pro-tune). The 217whp on OTS tune? 240whp now? We can just agree to dis-agree. Drive that car to joe-bob's dyno jet that has never head of cobb and dyno it. But again, the peak numbers ( which Matt/you eluded to in the video ) will change from dyno to dyno, just for me, when I say I make xxx whp on yyy parts, I think people should be able to achieve those numbers themselves in New Jersey, in Montana, in Kansas, not only at cobb's dyno in So cali. If I was putting out numbers on my dyno that seemed to be higher than every one of my customers even on OTS tunes, then I would lower my dyno settings. Of course... From the start of this video series to the end, the dyno settings have changed for cobb, but maybe they used the old settings to keep the delta correct between day 1 and now ( I hope so ).




    Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
    245whp 293Tq V-dyno
    13.3@104mph
     
  12. TheSmokingTire

    TheSmokingTire New Member

    It was not tuned on the dyno. The tune was loaded while the car was on the lift in the shop, and then run on the dyno to demonstrate the gains because we make videos for a living. The Stage 1, 2, and 3 maps for 91 octane on our car are exactly the same as any other COBB OTS customer would get. You may keep your $3.50, but I definitely did not join this forum to engage in an argument with you, only to correct you because you accused me of making an error in my video. But thanks for reminding me why I don't like forums. Peace out.
     
    Mr UFO, koozy, iLiptiKal and 2 others like this.
  13. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member

    Similar to what's been said on YouTube (in the comments), you aren't going to get near-identical power figures across the country. Every single chassis dyno is different, even without taking into account things like barometric pressure, ambient temperature, humidity, fuel quality, and the car in question. Those are a lot of x-factors to account for. Luckily enough for the guys at TST, it seems the conditions were fairly close to the same for each of the days they were there (as Matt has said a couple of times in a few different places when allegations were made that COBB is massaging the graphs). As with all things, 'your mileage may vary'. I certainly wouldn't expect to put down those numbers at my local dyno shop (which is a COBB ProTuner -- EFI Logics in Bethel, CT) as they have a Mustang Dynamics AWD500SE that reads notoriously low. Fuel quality variance is also definitely 'a thing'--look at my thread about getting pro-tuned on 93 with Randy Robles from Mountune. We struggled with sub-par fuel until I found an alternative source, and even with my present revision, there is still positive correction (which is great) and the tune very strong and consistent, without being on the ragged edge. As you probably know, all these things make a difference. What's important is not just the absolute numbers, but the relative gains and that real estate under the curve. :)

    I think if you have some specific questions about it, you can definitely feel free to ask Ian, Braden, or any of the guys who post here on behalf of COBB. They're good knowledgeable folks. They'll probably have a lot more answers than speculation can yield.
     
  14. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member

    Yeah, that is definitely not the reaction I'd have hoped for, either.
     
  15. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    I agree with all that black bird. I'm just saying that when your selling parts, it would be better to error on the side of being in the middle of dyno readings, not 20whp more than what almost everyone else is seeing ( speaking of the 217whp). On a pro-tune, a friend of mine bought all the stg3 cobb parts. On a dynojet in middle america while its been cool/cold out, his car made 199whp on E30 with a protune. V-dyno's backed it up. Now he's making 231whp on the V-dyno woth more $$$ parts. I'm just saying, I wouldn't want to be selling a product, show everyone in the world ( literally ) that it makes 255whp then when they buy it with their hard earned/saved money, they goto a dyno and make 230whp. If I found out later I was the only one making 255whp and everyone else was making about 230whp, then I'd change some settings to make my numbers more obtainable by the people that are going to be buying my product. But... That is just me. 95% of anyone sees these numbers and sees 240whp and 318tq. I see more than that.


    Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
    245whp 293Tq V-dyno
    13.3@104mph
     
  16. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    Promise Matt, not trying to say you got it pro-tuned and your saying that you didn't. I'm saying I was wrong it what i remembered seeing from the stg3 video. Its been a while since I'd seen it. And you would def remember it bette than me since its your car (well, your staff) and I'm sure your sick of seeing the video by the time its edited,'lol. I was admitting I was wrong on that.

    I also agree anyone can achieve the results you guys did with the hardware you used. The catch is... I believe this is only true if you goto THAT DYNO at cobb.

    I'm sure cobb doesn't have the only "generous" dyno in the states, but its still irrelevant. The car is what it is. It makes what it makes. It drives how it drives. Even if you put it on a 3rd party dyno jet and it made 227whp. So what?? It doesn't change it, lol. What if it made 200whp? Still... Nothing changes.

    What is an issue to me ( and only me I guess ), is claiming xxx parts gives you yyy power with a dyno that seems to read higher than everyone else's. It may be dead on for a wrx. But its a mustang AWD dyno converted to 2wd dyno jet numbers. Its pretty much a given, with the more variables in an equation, the more the outcome can be slightly off.

    For fiesta's... That dyno is a little generous.


    Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
    245whp 293Tq V-dyno
    13.3@104mph
     
  17. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member

    Outliers can and will happen---I've seen it before, and will probably again--in both directions. That's a natural occurrence when you gather a wide enough sample. Some cars & dynos will dyno high, some will dyno absurdly low. I personally don't think it's incumbent on Cobb Tuning to adjust their settings to accommodate what people think is the expected value for a given set of modifications. I also don't see COBB saying x part will yield y horsepower and torque gains in concrete figures--they give very rough percentages based on what they know.

    I don't think anything else productive can come out of going further down that line of reasoning.
     
  18. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    And for the record...
    [​IMG]
    Matt told me this... The cobb posted a log of the car running 24psi. So to think you had a INVOLUNTARY slip on the video and didn't realize it ( saying it was an OTS tune when it was a pro-tune ) would not be out of the question. If your saying now, that it was a OTS tune; then I have no issue believing that completely and admitting I was prob wrong ( i'd have to watch the video again ).


    Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
    245whp 293Tq V-dyno
    13.3@104mph
     
  19. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    I also don't see COBB saying x part will yield y horsepower and torque gains in concrete figures--they give very rough percentages based on what they know.

    [/QUOTE]

    Cobb suppling the hardware and tune for free and having a video posted about to the world is not cobb saying, "buy these parts and you'll get 217whp / 240whp"?

    And they are not lieing, lol. As long as its at their dyno in cali. Or... They could correct there higher than normal readings and say, "buy these parts and you can can ACTUALLY ACHIVE THESE NUMBERS in Atlanta or where ever as well."


    Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
    245whp 293Tq V-dyno
    13.3@104mph
     
  20. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member

    Totally different. Matt can feel free to correct me (if he's even inclined to post here now) but I'm pretty sure what these videos constitute are that COBB has hooked up TST with parts to showcase what they can do. They ran them on the dyno, and that's what turned up. Now, I'll ask you to move on from your crusade to prove something---and I'm not sure whether that's to prove Matt wrong, to prove Cobb wrong, or what. Any result on a dyno should be taken at a grain of salt, because it says 'that is what that car did, on that day, in those conditions, on that dyno'.

    Let's not make the likelihood that we'll get morsels like these build videos less by going on tirades about things that we can't prove. It hurts the perception of our community and ultimately provides no utility or conclusions.
     
    ISO100, koozy and Dyn085 like this.
  21. sourskittle

    sourskittle Member

    3 years from now, look back on this thread. Show me MPH at a 1/4mile track (not g-force based in-car test equipment) and I'll admit I was wrong. I admitted i was wrong about the OTS tune vs pro-tune, if I'm wrong, its easy to admit. Cobb was nice enough to post a log and for me, that was enough to settle the debate on "gains made" or "delta gains". I admitted I wrong on those. 240whp? Well... Prove me wrong again. I made 233whp on a dyno jet 10 minutues before a stocl focus ST made 218whp 248tq and I trapped 104mph. With 240whp and way more torque than me, 104mph trap speeds should be easy, so 106mph trap speeds? But we know that's not gonna happen....


    Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
    245whp 293Tq V-dyno
    13.3@104mph
     
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