Tire Whisperers--your thoughts, please!

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Wheel and Tire Upgrades' started by BlackBird, Jun 14, 2015.

  1. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member

    I need new tires. I popped one of my ZIIs (right rear). My rears were previously the more worn fronts, and I'd need to replace both (fronts just got rotated in and have a decent amount of depth). But ZIIs are out of production, and I can no longer buy the size I'd need. So rather than mixing tread patterns or compounds on a daily and possibly screwing up the handling balance, I'm faced with buying a new set and passing on or selling my fronts to someone who has better use for them.

    Current top options (for a 15x6.5 Sparco), mixed performance driving duties.
    • Toyo Proxes R1R 225/45/15 - $141 ea
    • Dunlop Direzza Sport ZII Star Spec 205/50/15 - $114 ea
    • Bridgestone RE71-R 205/50/15 - $120 ea
    • Yokohama Advan NEOVA AD08-R 205/50/15 $116 ea
    • Hankook VENTUS RS-3 Version 2 - 225/45/15 $121 ea
    • BFG G-Force Rival S 205/50/15 - $129 ea
    • BFG G Force Rival S 225/45/15 - $144 ea
    From a purely cost standpoint, I don't like the R1Rs. They also seem to wear too fast according to most and would make a poor daily tire. The G-Force Rival Ses are also a bit too much money, personally. I'm mostly between the RE71-Rs and the RS3 V2s. I know people have done 225 on a 6.5 wide before, it's not ideal, but it's not the worst thing either. I have a long-ish school commute (60 miles per day), but that would mostly be on my winters anyways.

    Guide me, O Gurus of Grip! School me, sultans of street tires, ye theoreticians of the traction circle. For I am weak, my right rear has a slow leak, and I need these by the end of the week.
    Pedro likes this.
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  3. Pedro

    Pedro Active Member

    From a racing stand point, and from everything I learned from talking to indycar engineers. Ideally even if one tire goes out you want to replace the whole set of 4 tires. It is to keep things predictable and have the maximum performance. There is also a whole lot of other science in it but that is a quick summary of what I learned.

    Now I also know we as regular people do not possess millions of dollars to replace our tires every chance we get. But I would say try to get the tire that would have the closest similarities as your fronts. This leads me to suggest the Dunlops Zii star spec as they have similar characteristic as their regular zii but with more grip. Also the tread pattern is pretty much the same so when it comes to wet driving there won't be any surprises of front to rear grip. Also I have had both the RS3 and the zii star spec on my fiesta and the RS3 will slide out before the zii does. Both are great tires. But from what I observed the RS3 were smooth as butter when it came to sliding the rear. Whereas the zii star spec wants to just grab as much as it can. Then when it does slide out you do not get as much of a slide as the tires are going to want to get traction back sooner but not in a jerky sensation.

    Hope this helps. Again though it is just my opinion. Hope others chime in.
    BlackBird likes this.
  4. BlackBird

    BlackBird Active Member Staff Member

    Yeah, my first instinct is to replace all four, and if I can't do that, simply get 2 of the most similar tire. So it's basically 2 Star Specs, or a set of four of something else. There are pros and cons to both approaches. I should note that in some ways this was "good" to happen as my rears (former fronts when they were on another car) got some pretty heavy camber wear (that I could have fixed by mounting them on opposite sides and a little toe, but that's neither here nor there). I was sitting around the garage kicking around tire ideas with my wrenchmates (two technicians and a driver with a SCCA competition license--good environment to keep my wits sharp) and the feel was to just do the whole set and see what this year's top end 200TW tires have to offer. (Okay, the AD08-R is a 180, so nevermind that). Around the shop we have a mix of AD08Rs, Neogens (bleh), Rivals, and a couple other older tires to compare experiences to (on mostly RWD cars--S2000s, M3, RX7s, turbo MX5--but someone else in our group drives an Abarth and tracks it, so similar enough comparison).

    The ZII lets go the rear at... really high speeds. I'm not going to say how I know this, but it does, and it does so....in an astoundingly progressive way. I thought their overall stickiness might tip the balance into understeer but amazingly at the limit, you start getting slip angle and the correction isn't ridiculous.
  5. Pedro

    Pedro Active Member

    I would agree about the correction. I remember on my RS3's I would have to do a full counter steer (not opposite lock but the steering center would be facing the 9 o clock position). And with the Star specs the rotation is there but what I feel to be in a more controlled way (once you get used to the high speeds that they break loose on). Where when the rear end comes out you point the center of the steering wheel where you want the front end to point and it goes there, so there is less correction. I would be curious if you did go with the star specs as to the increase in performance from the old ZII.

    Also if you haven't already adjusting the front camber and a slightly negative toe increases turn in hugely. I am running -2.2L/-2.3R camber on my fiesta and the tire wear is still quite normal if anything I still see the outside of the tire being worn just as much as the inside if not more. So I am thinking I may bump it up to the -3 on both ends. Also my toe settings are -.12L/-.16R

    Although if you do go with the AD08R's I would assume the grip would also increase. Using my tires as a DD and on track I have 5,000 miles and they appear to be about 1/2 of the original tread. So the wear is pretty good too. Tire choice is about driving style I am thinking about putting the RS3 back on my car for DD and mountain runs. That way I am not going crazy fast speeds to just get some fun rotation.
    BlackBird likes this.
  6. RodMoe

    RodMoe Well-Known Member

    I have a set of 225/45/15 rival-S on the car now and they grip well and fit pretty well. my other set is a 205/50/15 hoosier A6 for track both are on 15x8 rims and the 205's fit the 8 inch rim prerfect from a square tire look and the 225 have just a little bulge but are very nice looking for me it came down to size of 225/45 and I could only find BFG and Hankooks rs3-Vs so I went BFG for max grip and from what I am told the RE71 and the Rival-S are bout the same in the dry and the wet but both will wear faster than the tire they replaced (not a worry for me I needed traction with the 375whp the GTX provided)
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
    BlackBird likes this.
  7. StayPuft

    StayPuft New Member

    Op thanks for posting this, I'm looking at these same tires.

    Could i expect similar mileage out of the ZII and Rs3 for 80% dd 20% weekend autox?

    Also, looks like the kumho ecsta 720 just got released, could possibly be thrown in the mix pending feedback.
  8. Izzy

    Izzy Member

    On 15x6.5?...205 tire max
  9. felopr

    felopr New Member

    kinda wondering why you didnt put the kuhmo ecsta XS in there also
    good cheap tire extreme summer tire 205/50/15 180 tread AA grip, 110ish price on tire rack
    i use those tires for a track civic and i love them
    the only downsize maybe is that, from the reviews, they dont grip well on the wet compared to the direzza

    looking at the list that you put and is a DD, i will go with the direzza, they are cheap, they are proven in the reviews, they handle great in the dry and wet, that should be and important factor imo
    just my 2 cents
  10. D-man

    D-man New Member

    what about in stock 17" size? 200+ treadwear, (factory bridgestones wear too fast!)
  11. Max Archer

    Max Archer Member

    The RE71Rs are the hot ticket Autocross tire around here (SoCal) lately, all the guys I know who are in that scene swear by them. They'll definitely blow the RS3 out of the water in terms of grip, but will also wear faster in normal street driving. (However, I hear that the RE71s handle quite a few more heat cycles before dying, so they may be the longer-lived option if you do heavy cone dodging or trackdays.)
  12. D-man

    D-man New Member

    are the re71's the stock size (17") or smaller? The reason I ask is the stock re050's are below a 200 treadwear and my autocross club adds a penalty for these tires. I want to keep the stock size but go to a 200+ wear tire so I can auotx and street drive the same set for both. Not looking to win, just go out and play and still be able to street drive without going through 2 sets a year.

  13. Max Archer

    Max Archer Member

    I believe they make them in stock size and know for sure they make them in -1 (16") sizing. (I just put 16"s on my car and they were among the options Tire Rack showed me.)
  14. D-man

    D-man New Member

    other options for an everday tire that will get autox'd once in a while? Actual experience would with a particular tire would be awesome!
  15. D-man

    D-man New Member

    anybody? I need a 200 + tread wear tire recommendation for stock rims. Mostly street driving with 5 autocross days a summer.
  16. KKaWing

    KKaWing Member

    Autocross tires on stock wheels... you're pretty much limited to the 215/40R17 Dunlop Direzza ZII and the Falken RT-615K in 205/40R17 and 215/40R17 for "extreme" performance tires. There's also Federal 595RS-R tires in 215/40R17 but they're 140 treadwear. Keep an eye on them and they might eventually update it to a 200... maybe. If you are willing to use UHP tires instead, there's the Bridgestone RE760, BFG Comp-2, Federal 595EVO, Falken FK453 (a mag. said it takes a while to warm up), and Maxxis Victra MA-V1 for an "out there" option.
  17. D-man

    D-man New Member

    Uhp should be good enough for the occasional autocross. I was wondering if anyone has tried the 760's or the comp 2's as a daily driver with some track time? I want to maintain the grip of the stock tires, I'm out for fun not to compete. Anyone tried this method with those tires?
  18. KKaWing

    KKaWing Member

    I believe the 760 should be the "faster" tire by a tiny bit, the comp-2 has better water performance and wider tread. The comp-2's also been reported to have a growl. Tire rack has a great video review/comparison on those two tires.
  19. Makemfast

    Makemfast New Member

    Hey Guys,

    I am on the also looking for new tires now that the weather is getting nice. I currently have stock Rims with Blizzak tires on them (well worth the investment FYI)

    As far as performance goes what would you all recommend? Road legal is really my only requirement. Would it be worth getting smaller tires like 15' or 16 inch Rims? If so would that allow me to get a wider tire and lower the car in the future?

    Thanks for your help

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