Wahoo Autocross

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Autocross' started by Smokin, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Yes, they were heat cycled and surprised me with the grip right off the bat vs. the Direzzas. First time this car ever pulled out of a front end push by applying throttle.

    I f'kd around all weekend playing with tire pressures and shifting into 3rd so was not consistent and only semi-fast. Also this was a really fast course. I was at redline (58 mph) half way down two of the straights.
    On Sunday the rains came after run three when I was messing around and was set on getting the fastest runs on 4 and 5, so I punted and went home.

    So still don't know if the camber was better because I don't have a true measure but turn-in was good noted above.
    I figured the two bolts had to have some play so I jacked up the front, took the wheel off, loosened the strut bolts and put the holder/bracket (whatever you call it) from a jack stand on the ground, angling inward, supporting the top hat part of the disc. I then lowered the car VERY carefully to put pressure on the support and pushed hard on the top of the disc/kingpin and tightened the bolts and nuts. My unofficial cell phone angle gauge app, Clinometer, showed an extra degree of camber. It wasn't measured on level ground or at ride height but is the most negative camber you can force out of it....
    CrookedRacer likes this.
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  3. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    I also got to watch a FiST close up while working a corner. It IS all bouncy, rolley and stressed on cornering.
    Comparing it to the multiple minis we have around here it looks out of control.
    I swear the guys front right was off the ground one time.

    I'm looking for that extra second and that's where is it.

    Question 1: One of the track guys says he uses a 2011 Fiesta SES front bar. Are they really 22 mm and are they really stiffer?

    Question 2: Are FoST struts interchangeable and are they stiffer?

    Let the discussion begin.....
  4. Couldahadav8

    Couldahadav8 Active Member

    We definitely need camber.
    It would be great if we could get a tsb for crash bolts.

    I have wondered about a front swaybar too because of the roll, but everyone seems to be scared that it would make the car push.

    Are you asking if focus st struts fit on the fiesta st?

    The 615s seemed as fast as the zii's?
  5. Cligedy

    Cligedy Active Member

    Smokin, I tried to pm you, but the forum won't let me. Koni yellows should be available any minute now. There is also the option of fabricating the struts to accept koni double adjustable inserts. CrookedRacer has done this, and now I am working to build mine (with his help.)
  6. CrookedRacer

    CrookedRacer Active Member

    I did this very thing myself when I was putting my struts back on. That, and being sure the shock top hat was pushed as far inboard as possible before I tightened up the three top hat nuts again.

    I have two events this weekend so I should have some feedback on the performance and adjustments of my RACE inserts (and rear shocks a-la Couldahadav8) by then.
    Smokin and Couldahadav8 like this.
  7. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    It definitely won't make the car push. Not with all that body roll. I used to hear that all the time. It comes from people who have not experienced any type of performance driving and "heard it somewhere". If that was the case why are all other sports cars so flat in cornering...
    I used the APR front bar on my GTI just to get it to turn in. It will make the car handle better because it's keeping the front tires on the road.

    Yes, I'm asking if FoST struts fit the FiST. They have to be valved stiffer than the FiST. They have the same part number.
    And I felt like the Falkens had better cornering stability and grip than the Direzzas.
    They felt really good in the slalom. None of that power sliding. That's when I noticed body roll was a limiting factor.
    Wish I could have compared back to back.
    jimclark likes this.
  8. Couldahadav8

    Couldahadav8 Active Member

    I find different part numbers. The 18124 part of the number seems a generic front strut number. It is the same number used with mustang front struts.
  9. Mightymango

    Mightymango Active Member

    Smokin , do you have a bigger front bar? I went with the rear as I did on other cars with good results but as stated with all the body roll I don't think it is really helping much if at all so I concur on that as well.
  10. jasyatz

    jasyatz Member

    Not sure if the SES bar fits on the ST, but if it does, don't bother with the 22mm SES bar, get the Racing Beat front bar. at 25.5mm this thing is a tree trunk and completely transformed the turn in on my Mazda. I added the rear bar also, and it did stiffen the rear beam, but the ST is already more stiff than the Mazda2 so that is probably a wash.
  11. jasyatz

    jasyatz Member

    Did you get alignment numbers on the camber? If you can get close to -2.0 that's the sweet spot. I'm over -3.0 now an turn in is great but hurts wheelspin. I just finished putting the BIG front swaybar in; if the results are good, I'm going to try and back off the camber to see how much change there is. I know before I slotted my struts that -2.5 had much less spin coming of quicker transitions.
  12. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Nope. Won't make any more changes until over the winter. I have seen no advantage to getting a rear bar. I can tripod it and produce all the trailing throttle oversteer I want. And I also don't want a "monster" front bar. That works fine with a Mazda 2 or Fiesta but just some more front stiffness to decrease the roll and allow the fronts to hook up. Speaking of which, I know we are all still learning and experimenting with this car but I have found with the e-dif, if you keep the wheel at 1/4 lock or less it will pull you around like an LSD. It is especially pronounced with the new Falken Azenis 615ks. The trick is what I tell my students, when you get that erk, erk, erk understeer, UNWIND IT!!!! The Falkens have pulled out of a corner like mad and I am pleased.

    BTW I was only 1 sec off Steve Umholz's Focus ST last weekend at Lincoln. Runs were around 61 seconds. The 2-day Midiv is this weekend.
    jimclark and spangenb like this.
  13. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    The 2-day Midiv event in Lincoln was a mixed bag. I ran great on the "power" course and was 0.9 secs off Umholz's FoST and really thought I'd catch him on the West course Sunday. This was a repeat of the 2013 National Championship courses. Sunday sucked the big one though as I was mentally off. They started early and with very few cars they ran through the grid fast. I like some mental prep time and had a big brain fart DNFing on runs 1 and 4.

    Run three was loose all the way through and Steve said he was too so there may have been some liquid on the course. I readjusted my tire pressures for run 4 and was immediately amazed with the good grip through the start and chicane. So amazed that I looked down the left for the 1st slalom cone and cut right inside the turn-in cone rather than going around it. I was f'd so I thought I would crank through the course anyway and it would have been my fastest because the car had perfect grip and just the right amount of oversteer. Oh well, at least I got that out of my system before Nationals.

    We cannot compete with the 275 ftlb 2L FoSTs so this will be my last highly competitive T&T for the season. I hope to be within 3 seconds of the leaders each day. The FoST in GS will be a hollow victory regardless of where they place. It's like putting an S2000 in E-Street against Miatas......

    But the good news is the Koni Yellow Sports are in the USA and they are supplying me with a set for Nationals. I have experience with them on the GTI and have used those on the rears for a month now, so I think set-up will be fine. I am sticking with the Falken Azenis 615K in 215/45x16. It's about the most grip this car will see this year. Any tire change will come in March next year.

    Oh, and one more thing....I tried those Federal 235/40x17s on the front with OEM rears. Not a good idea. First thing is they split across the tread where the wrap ends showing they were wrapped the wrong way (unidirectional tires). But the big thing is weight. I used my trusty 50 lb. Rapalla fish scale and they weight 46.75 pounds. The Falkens with Sparco Assetto Gara 16" wheels weigh 36.5 pounds. A whopping 20 pounds of rotational AND unsprung weight....Am using them to daily drive now and even the fuel mileage is 4 mpg less.....
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
    Mightymango likes this.
  14. Mightymango

    Mightymango Active Member

    That is why I will not be driving the FiST at nationals this year. That is a HUGE rotational weight with the 235s.
  15. CrookedRacer

    CrookedRacer Active Member

    What's really going to be fun is that we'll both be on the same tires at Nationals. I had mine shaved a bit to take out the squirm. I hope they stick as well as you say they do, but in case of overheating, I'm armed with that water sprayer.
  16. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Christmas in August............ :)

    jimclark likes this.
  17. Mightymango

    Mightymango Active Member

    Nice !!

    I will be looking/watching closely Thursday/Friday when GS is running.
  18. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    I'm running Falken 615ks. 215/45x16. Is that what you got? I've shaved my with five event days so far.........

    BTW you're welcome to come join us at the KC/KS tent on row 17....
  19. Des

    Des Active Member

    Awesome! Koni site shows they are still MIA .... Do you have parts numbers?
    Will be very interested to see the car on course.
  20. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    Well, we finished up the final event of the year here in Kansas City. Was a fun year. I ran in 21 events, over 31 days with 142 runs plus two track events.

    Finished 1st in G-Street in the MiDiv, 2nd in Class in KCR and 6th in Pax in KCR.

    Now to find one more second over the winter......


  21. xorpheous

    xorpheous Member

    Hey, who is that cat in 6th? :)
    Smokin likes this.

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