When do you shift into 2nd?

Discussion in 'Fiesta ST Chat and Discussion' started by OLST, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. BlueBomber

    BlueBomber Active Member

    after I am moving, but before I over-rev.
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  3. BlueBomber

    BlueBomber Active Member

    also expect jerkiness when shifting due to the crappy rear motor mount
  4. Zormecteon

    Zormecteon Active Member

    Speaking of shift points.. .I've been watching the upshift arrow to find the lowest point at which it goes on, to reverse determine the lowest rpm from which is would is necessary to downshift. The light comes on at about 1750 rpm, and the next lower gear is then at 1500 rpm, meaning that to keep the car from lugging, 1500 is the lowest point from which you should pick the next lower gear.

    I haven't tested but I believe the gearbox is set so that the drop in rpm as you upshift is from peak horsepower to peak torque, thus the ratios provided, always keeping you in the power band.
  5. BlueBomber

    BlueBomber Active Member

    the light will also come on based on throttle input.
  6. Zormecteon

    Zormecteon Active Member

    Yes, also based on throttle input. If you're nailing the gas it won't come on at all, even to red line. .. I was seeking the lowest point, slowly, ever so slowly increasing speed, trying to make the light come on.
  7. Chris

    Chris Member

    Maybe I should start there? Lol

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  8. smatty

    smatty Member

    There is definitely some type of rev matching assistance when downshifting that I have noticed. Allows for a nice and smooth shift even if you are listening to the radio too loudly to judge the revs by ear. Just bump the revs higher than needed with the clutch held in and the revs will stop falling right where you want the next gear to engage for a smooth shift. I haven't tested it to see if they hold forever but it definitely holds long enough.
  9. Chris

    Chris Member

    I'll have to try that. I was gonna check YouTube for some possible lessons too...

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  10. Chris

    Chris Member

    So started rev matching practice today. Just some questions if any manual vets could answer me. 3rd to 4th is pretty easy. 2nd isn't as easy but I notice 1st and 2nd are both pretty short gears in this car. 1st especially. I've decided around town I'm probably only going to downshift to 3rd then use the brakes to come to a complete stop from there. Is this a good idea? Again first manual car so I'm learning everyday. Any input is welcomed! Thx.

    Also got to run 3 track tour laps at Autoclub Speedway in Fontana on Sunday as a part of the SoCal festival of speed. What a blast. Video coming soon!

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  11. MasterPooBaa

    MasterPooBaa Member

    Rev matching is an acquired skill. Ive been driving manual ever since I first got my license 20 years ago and i'm still no expert.
    Around town I to use 4th > 3rd often. Being somewhat lazy I often leave the car in 3rd all the way down close to idle before clutch in, braking and sliding into 1st at nothing more than a walking pace. On a significant slope (up or down), or if the lights are about to change green I do downshift to 2nd as well. Give the throttle a decent blip and 2nd should just slot right in. After a bit of practice you should be able to feel when the revs match and the gear just slides in from neutral.

    Much of this is instinct. How the gearbox feels, knowing unconsciously what sort of revs you will need at what speed in the lower gear.
  12. Chris

    Chris Member

    I did some more practicing on my way home tonight and was able to match down to 2nd turning onto the on ramp. I'm just working on timing.
    The technique I'm using is clutch in, downshift, stab the gas to bring the revs up and release the clutch. Seems to work good, just working on timing as I said.

    Today is day 13 of ownership. Like I said learning everyday. Thanks for the response!

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  13. Zormecteon

    Zormecteon Active Member

    Couple of things..

    1) brakes are cheaper to replace than clutches, so when coming to a stop, don't bother to downshift all the way to first. I leave mine in third or fourth, push in the clutch and brake to a stop. When coming to a light, I'm ready to bang into second if i need to, but never first. (I watch for the yellows on the side street)

    2) The idea of rev matching is to get the tranny turning at the same speed as the engine BEFORE shifting. It comes from the time before syncro rings when double clutching was necessary. There the technique is clutch in, shift to neutral, clutch out, rev engine, clutch in, downshift, clutch out.... When using a modern tranny, if you clutch in, then rev the engine putting light pressure on the shifter, you can feel when the stick will slip into the lower gear... done correctly, you wouldn't even really need to use the clutch. but the syncros will wear out faster if you don't. ..

    3) upshifting should be done with a slight delay to let the engine rpms drop down to the speed of the next higher gear. Again, you can feel it. Watch the tach, that's what it's for. To get an idea of where the points match up when upshifting, and you can use those points for downshifting...

    Feel and practice.
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  14. Chris

    Chris Member

    Cool thanks. I've also decided on only going down to third around town. 2nd is my rolling gear for quick light changes, neighborhoods and parking lots. Thanks for the advise. I'm gonna keep on keepin on and continue to learn.

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  15. Chris

    Chris Member

    So with modern transmissions and such would you consider my rev match technique to be good or bad? I'm mainly concerned about good or bad for the car but tips and hints about different techniques are helpful too

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  16. Smokin

    Smokin Active Member

    It's good to be smoove....works for any rpm. You should have a fell for how the synchros are working.

    The best advice is to not grip the shifter, but caress it and shift with movement of your fingers and wrist, not arm.
    1-2nd: fingers at 1 o'clock, flick your wrist.
    2-3rd: palm at 7 o'clock, fingers hi, push wrist forward.
    3-4th: Fingers at 12 o'clock, flick wrist backwards.
    4-5th: palm at 8 o'clock, push wrist away from you.

    Downshifting the same. Use your fingers and flick your wrist. 3-2nd is most important; blip throttle, fingers on outside of shifter, flick wrist back to your thigh....you'll never miss a shift.
  17. ghostwhite

    ghostwhite Active Member

    Thanks for the wrist flickin tips

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  18. Chris

    Chris Member

    Ya I'm aiming for smooth. Speed will come with time and practice. 3rd to 2nd seems to be the hardest shift to get down but 2nd is so short I'll prob only need to do it for real tight turns and hairpins. I was practicing last night and had to rev to just above 3k to make the shift nice and smooth at around 30mph. Anyway thanks for the finger tips! (Pun intended) practice practice!

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  19. OLST

    OLST New Member

    Hi Chris,

    I was on the same boat as you when I first got my car. Everyone here has provided very helpful tips. I've been driving for about 4 months now and upshifting and downshifting are buttery smooth. I live in a very traffic congested and hilly city and like you I really aim for smooth driving.

    I found that 1st-2nd is all about your foot clutch work to smooth it out. You don't want to shift too high and you want your rpms to drop before shifting up. My best driving is when I take it easy and take my time: easy on the shifter, easy on the clutch.

    I use the same downshift technique you use and it's just about practice and smooth clutch work for smooth downshifting. You'll figure out pretty quickly how much to rev up for downshifts.

    You have all the tools you need, like you said, just practice practice.

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